19 Nov 13
Originally posted by SwissGambit"That's no problem for them. There's yet another argument over the true path of salvation in another thread." -SwissGambit
That's no problem for them. There's yet another argument over the true path of salvation in another thread.
SG, there's only "path of salvation"; anyone who tells you differently is uninformed and definitely not your friend. -Bob
1.20. "For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus." (Galatians 3:26) When you believe in Christ, you enter into a new, personal relationship with God; a relationship beginning in time and a member of His family forever.
1.21. "And I give eternal life to them, and they shall never perish; and no one shall snatch them out of My hand." (John 10:28) Though all believers will fail, some more than others, God never abandons any of his children. Their position in Him is secure. The fact of His timely warning and intensive discipline attests to His love for His children. It's a permanent union.
1.22. "For I am convinced that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities nor things present, nor powers, nor height, nor depth, nor any other created thing shall be able to separate us from the unfailing love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord." (Romans 8:38-39) Relationship with God is permanent. Once you've believed in Christ, you cannot lose your salvation. Your ultimate security is God's unconditional promise of eternal life. God's perfection is your guarantee.
1.23. James observes that an individual's life on earth is but a "fleeting vapor trail", a fine thread of a few years or decades in length at best to think about and make advance preparation for life after physical death. A believer in Christ can look forward to "... an inheritance which is undefiled and will not fade away, reserved in heaven for you." (1 Peter 1:4)
1.24. Though the Bible reveals few details about heaven, it does assure us that it is glorious beyond our imaginations and any temporal happiness we've known: "And He shall wipe away every tear from their eyes; and there shall no longer be any death; there shall no longer be any mourning, or crying or pain." (Revelation 21: 4a)
1.25. Most significant and astounding of all, we will see and be in the presence of Christ Himself who is "... the radiance of His [God the Father's] Glory and the exact representation of His nature." Hebrews 1:3a (to be continued)
1.26. An alternative address awaits all who reject Christ’s agonizing substitutionary spiritual death on their behalf: the Lake of Fire, sharing the final destination of the devil and his angels. It's an endless nightmare of suffering and pain; a place of eternal torment and hopelessness: "And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever." (Revelation 20:10b) "And if anyone's name was not found written in the Book of Life, he was thrown into the Lake of Fire." (Revelation 20:15)
1.27. Christ took our place and accepted the punishment of separation from God the Father during those final three hours of the crucifixion. His finished work atoned for the sins of all mankind; and in doing so propitiated (satisfied) the Righteousness and Justice of God. All who reject God's Grace Gift are without hope and without eternal life. “God demonstrates His love toward us in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died as a substitute for us.” (Revelation 20:10b)
1.28. God respects our volition. He has given us the freedom to make our own uncoerced individual choice with respect to the person and finished work of Jesus Christ. By a simple act of faith we can have eternal life: “He gave His only begotten [uniquely born] Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life.” (John 3: 16b)
1.29. It’s a private decision. No one else can make it for us nor has the right to force us to make any decision in this matter. In the privacy of your own soul, you too can simply tell God the Father you are believing in Jesus Christ. In that moment, your eternal future will be assured. You will have eternal life; you will share an eternal relationship with God and live with Him forever in heaven. Faith alone in Christ alone is salvation! Choice is yours.
Thread 156452 (Page 2)
19 Nov 13
Many orthodox people speak as though it were the business of sceptics
to disprove received dogmas rather than of dogmatists to prove them. This
is, of course, a mistake. If I were to suggest that between the Earth and
Mars there is a china teapot revolving about the sun in an elliptical orbit,
nobody would be able to disprove my assertion provided I were careful to
add that the teapot is too small to be revealed even by our most powerful
telescopes. But if I were to go on to say that, since my assertion cannot be
disproved, it is intolerable presumption on the part of human reason to
doubt it, I should rightly be thought to be talking nonsense. If, however,
the existence of such a teapot were affirmed in ancient books, taught as
the sacred truth every Sunday, and instilled into the minds of children at
school, hesitation to believe in its existence would become a mark of
eccentricity and entitle the doubter to the attentions of the psychiatrist in
an enlightened age or of the Inquisitor in an earlier time.
Bertrand Russell
20 Nov 13
Originally posted by Grampy BobbyOnce again, you demonstrate how deaf you are. You clearly didn't understand what I posted. I suggest you go back and read it over several times till it sinks in.
We're examining ideas within quotations, not the personal failures of those with whom we disagree. Let's elevate our focus.
20 Nov 13
Originally posted by SwissGambitTheists frequently disagree with each other over matters of theology, but to seem to be siding with an atheist is just not done. Sure it does happen, but most theists refrain from criticizing a fellow theist if doing so would be siding with atheists.
That's no problem for them. There's yet another argument over the true path of salvation in another thread.
20 Nov 13
Originally posted by Bosse de NageThat is because it is subject to a fairly large amount of interpretation. You are clearly interpreting it a different way that I or googlefudge did but I am not entirely sure what your interpretation is.
They could easily agree with Goethe without looking stupid.
20 Nov 13
Originally posted by SwissGambitI must also add that there is a significantly higher proportion of theists in that thread than in this one, so the reason for the large proportion of atheists here cannot be attributed solely to atheists being more prone than theists to talk about God. In fact, that thread is a discussion of God, whereas this thread is much more a discussion of atheists and theists opinions of them.
That's no problem for them. There's yet another argument over the true path of salvation in another thread.
20 Nov 13
1 edit
Originally posted by twhitehead"Its not at all surprising. Theists can't agree with the quotes without looking stupid, and can't disagree with them without looking like they disagree with a fellow theist." -twhitehead
Once again, you demonstrate how deaf you are. You clearly didn't understand what I posted. I suggest you go back and read it over several times till it sinks in.
> We're examining ideas within quotations, not the personal failures of those with whom we disagree. Let's elevate our focus.
"Once again, you demonstrate how deaf you are. You clearly didn't understand what I posted. I suggest you go back and read it over several times till it sinks in." -twhitehead
"looking stupid"... "demonstrate how deaf"... "till it sinks in." -twhitehead
> The elevated agitation level's quite noticeable; there's no rational capacity for thought in the emotions. Am I wrong?
"Theists can't agree with the quotes without looking stupid, and can't disagree with them without looking like they disagree with a fellow theist." -twhitehead
> Beg to differ with the broad broom sweeping generalization. I, for one, attempt to remain objective and impartial.
20 Nov 13
Originally posted by twhiteheadOriginally posted by Bosse de Nage
That is because it is subject to a fairly large amount of interpretation. You are clearly interpreting it a different way that I or googlefudge did but I am not entirely sure what your interpretation is.
"They could easily agree with Goethe without looking stupid."
"That is because it is subject to a fairly large amount of interpretation. You are clearly interpreting it a different way that I or googlefudge did but I am not entirely sure what your interpretation is." -twhitehead
May I ask how you interpret Goethe?
20 Nov 13
Originally posted by Grampy BobbyYes, you are wrong.
> The elevated agitation level's quite noticeable; there's no rational capacity for thought in the emotions. Am I wrong?
> Beg to differ with the broad broom sweeping generalization. I, for one, attempt to remain objective and impartial.
Yet you seem totally deaf to anyone with views different from yours. Your response to my earlier post clearly showed that you did not even attempt to understand what I said.
20 Nov 13
Originally posted by twhiteheadPlease pinpoint your question. I very much want to hear what you've got to say and wish we could do this in person.
Yes, you are wrong.
[b]> Beg to differ with the broad broom sweeping generalization. I, for one, attempt to remain objective and impartial.
Yet you seem totally deaf to anyone with views different from yours. Your response to my earlier post clearly showed that you did not even attempt to understand what I said.[/b]
20 Nov 13
Originally posted by KellyJayVarious reasons - but mostly its hard wired into our brains by evolution.
Why would anyone who feels they set their own standard, care what you
think about other people?
There are kids running around now in a growing game that are trying to one punch strangers in the hopes of knocking them out. People are getting killed, but the games go on.
So there are people who lack empathy for strangers. I think we all know that. If anything it fits well with what I said and does not fit with a theistic view of morality.
But we can all agree that what they are doing is immoral - even those doing it would probably agree, they would simply have a different view as to how immoral it is.
Without any fear of God or man, what people fear or recognize are purely self centered. Saying
that you get every version of selfishness and some that actually have empathy, and neither of them can be thought of as worse than the other if we all look at everything by our own authority.
I am not certain what you are saying here, but I think I agree with you.
20 Nov 13
Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
May I ask how you interpret Goethe?
"The greatest act of faith takes place when a man finally decides that he is not God." (Johann Wolfgang Goethe)
1. He appears to be suggesting that most people think they are God. I think this is false. I certainly have never considered myself God and have never met anyone who has admitted doing so. But one could potentially give quite a wide range of meaning to 'God' in this context so under certain interpretations it might make some sense - but I struggle to think of an interpretation that would fit most people.
2. It is not clear whether Goethe is saying that after man decides he is not God, he then commits an act of faith, or whether he is saying that deciding that he is not God is itself an act of faith. Either way, I am not sure how one measures the size of acts of faith so how would one determine that this was a person's greatest such act?
20 Nov 13
Originally posted by Grampy BobbyIt was not a question. I was pointing out why there are not many theists in this thread. You seemed to think the lack of theists in the thread demonstrated the accuracy of the Heywood Broun quote - I was explaining that there was another explanation that better fits the situation.
Please pinpoint your question. I very much want to hear what you've got to say and wish we could do this in person.
Your response:
We're examining ideas within quotations, not the personal failures of those with whom we disagree. Let's elevate our focus.
Clearly shows you did not understand what I said.