05 Oct 15
Originally posted by yoctobyteIt's not always straightforward to assess posters here as we only see one aspect of each other through the lens of online anonymity, posting freedom and less of a need to be "ourselves". I see this as a natural online phenomena which we should accept and use to calibrate the range of responses for certain groups, like this spirituality group. Others here perceive this phenomena as posters "trolling".
Ok, that was not my first impression judging from some past posts that I had read. Thanks.
05 Oct 15
Originally posted by roigamMaybe this might help you. Its a comment by Carl Sagan on the false predictions of the Watchtower Organisation and their deceitfulness when their false predictions dont come to pass.
It seems you know little to nothing about JW's.
Probably 2nd, 3rd, or 4th hand information at best.
JW's are looking for and anticipating the end. We are on the watch for and alert in order to witness the end.
On rare occasion our hopes and our faith have exceeded our desires.
We are not calamity howlers.
We look for the end to this wicked unsuccessful s ...[text shortened]... se.
(Luke 23:43) And he said to him: “Truly I tell you today, you will be with me in Paradise.”
Carl Sagan regarding Watchtower predictions
"Doctrines that make no predictions are less compelling than those which make correct predictions; they are in turn more successful than doctrines that make false predictions.
But not always. One prominent American religion confidently predicted that the world would end in 1914. Well, 1914 has come and gone, and -- while the events of that year were certainly of some importance -- the world does not, at least so far as I can see, seem to have ended. There are at least three responses that an organized religion can make in the face of such a failed and fundamental prophecy. They could have said, "Oh, did we say '1914'? So sorry, we meant '2014.' A slight error in calculation. Hope you weren't inconvenienced in any way." But they did not. They could have said, "Well, the world would have ended, except we prayed very hard and interceded with God so He spared the Earth." But they did not. Instead, they did something much more ingenious.
They announced that the world had in fact ended in 1914, and if the rest of us hadn't noticed, that was our lookout. It is astonishing in the face of such transparent evasions that this religion has any adherents at all. But religions are tough. Either they make no contentions which are subject to disproof or they quickly redesign doctrine after disproof. The fact that religions can be so shamelessly dishonest, so contemptuous of the intelligence of their adherents, and still flourish does not speak very well for the tough-mindedness of the believers. But it does indicate, if a demonstration were needed, that near the core of the religious experience is something remarkably resistant to rational inquiry."
Broca's Brain, Carl Sagan (New York: Ballantine Books, 1979, pp. 332-33)
06 Oct 15
Originally posted by Rajk999That just proves the Carl Sagan doesn't know anything about JW's either.
Maybe this might help you. Its a comment by Carl Sagan on the false predictions of the Watchtower Organisation and their deceitfulness when their false predictions dont come to pass.Carl Sagan regarding Watchtower predictions
"Doctrines that make no predictions are less compelling than those which make correct predictions; they are in turn more s ...[text shortened]... l inquiry."
Broca's Brain, Carl Sagan (New York: Ballantine Books, 1979, pp. 332-33)
Birds of a feather flock together.
He would do well to study the Bible and then evaluate what the Jw's said more accurately. Anyway, that's ancient history.
I agree the organization had some things they did not understand 100 years ago.
They continued studying the Bible and learned better.
(Matthew 24:36) “Concerning that day and hour nobody knows, neither the angels of the heavens..... nor the Son,..... but only the Father.
If Jesus doesn't know the day and hour, how can we as imperfect humans?
But as imperfect humans, we all cn make mistakes.
Originally posted by roigamNo one really "cares" if your organisation's leadership makes errors, if their prophesies fail to come true or if their doctrines are wrong. What is interesting is that JWs will not accept these errors have occurred. False prophesy is an indication of error. We all know this.
That just proves the Carl Sagan doesn't know anything about JW's either. Birds of a feather flock together. He would do well to study the Bible and then evaluate what the Jw's said more accurately. Anyway, that's ancient history. I agree the organization had some things they did not understand 100 years ago. They continued studying the Bible and learned day and hour, how can we as imperfect humans? But as imperfect humans, we all cn make mistakes.
Despite protestations to the contrary, the WatchTower organisation presents itself as infallible, as being the sole voice of God's truth on earth etc. This inability to accept ones own fallibility and the subsequently the fallibility of the organisation, which after all is just made up of fallible people, is one of aspect which indicates that the Jehovah's Witness church a cult.
06 Oct 15
3 Know this first of all, that in the last days mockers will come with their mocking, following after their own lusts, 4 and saying, “Where is the promise of His coming? For ever since the fathers fell asleep, all continues just as it was from the beginning of creation.” 5 For [a]when they maintain this, it escapes their notice that by the word of God the heavens existed long ago and the earth was formed out of water and by water, 6 through which the world at that time was destroyed, being flooded with water. 7 But by His word the present heavens and earth are being reserved for fire, kept for the day of judgment and destruction of ungodly men.
8 But do not let this one fact escape your notice, beloved, that with the Lord one day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years like one day. 9 The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance.
2 Peter 3
Manny
06 Oct 15
1 edit
Originally posted by divegeesterThere is no "date" as you well know. But you are claiming that you can't even stick a finger in the air and see which way the winds are blowing to be able to come up with the concept of "soon".
Come to me with your "date" which you claim I don't know my Bible enough to find, and I will look back at history and "pull out of my arse" dozens of wars, rumours of wars, doctrinal deviations, persecutions and all manner of human carnage that will support an argument that Christ was about to return.
Don't misunderstand me; I'm not contesting that C ...[text shortened]... contesting what you and some of the others here claim you know about when it will occur.
And while you're gathering this information about "wars", perhaps you'd like to focus on exactly how many people have died in the 20th century because of war and persecution, and how this compares with previous centuries. Keeping in mind, of course, that the 21st century will be the bloodiest of them all.
I'm talking about trends. We are closer than ever to seeing the AntiChrist taking control. The stage has been built and it's being decorated for the first scene. I know you can't lay aside your personal dogma about the Bible being nothing more than a long series of parables to see that Revelation is different. Mankind is indeed headed for the abyss... the only argument or discussion should be about how long it might take to get there, keeping in mind that 'someone's' got a real heavy foot on the gas pedal.
Keep in mind that before Christ, Daniel and Isaiah (as well as numerous others) predicted His coming, just as John warns us of the coming of the Beast.
Originally posted by FMFI might remind you that I don't come here solely to endure your grilling. I don't have to answer every single half-cocked question you care to spew, especially since we've all figured out by now that your "questioning" is not born from curiosity, but from enmity and a desire to see people made fun of to make yourself appear "better than them".
Do you offer this substance-free evasive post as an example of the kind of forum posting you think more people should emulate?
And in case you haven't noticed, I do not hold myself up as a role model to others, as some do, and I really can't be bothered to give a flying rat's ass what people decide to emulate. I'm not campaigning to become a mod, as some here are.
06 Oct 15
Originally posted by roigamTook them about 100 yrs worth of errors to read Matt 24:36?
That just proves the Carl Sagan doesn't know anything about JW's either.
Birds of a feather flock together.
He would do well to study the Bible and then evaluate what the Jw's said more accurately. Anyway, that's ancient history.
I agree the organization had some things they did not understand 100 years ago.
They continued studying the Bible and learned ...[text shortened]... day and hour, how can we as imperfect humans?
But as imperfect humans, we all cn make mistakes.
Originally posted by FMFIt makes "one" wonder? No, it makes YOU wonder. Try not being passive-aggressive and say what YOU think, for a change. That's not even to say that you really don't wonder, because this is just another jab, trying to paint someone you do not agree with as somehow not all of a piece. And I'm not talking about "the notion" that anyone is laughing, I'm saying that YOU are laughing up your sleeve at all of us, really, for thinking we, or at least some of us, actually believe the crap you say.
Well I have made some observations and asked some questions. Your constant dodging makes one wonder if you seriously believe what you say you believe. It is you who has introduced the notion that anyone is laughing at you, not me.
You spend ALL your time here crapping on the posts of others. You very rarely have anything to say on your own worth commenting on. And yeah, we get it, you don't want to "expose yourself" to someone, like yourself, who is lying in wait to deride what you say. You like to paint yourself as some sort of paragon of sanity, sensibility, truthfulness and honesty, when, in fact, you've never actually opened up enough to give anyone a reason to believe that picture of yourself that you spend so much time creating.
I've had more than enough of my fill of your shenanigans on this site where I am concerned, and just this one factor alone "should" be enough to keep you from infecting this site as a mod.
06 Oct 15
1 edit
Originally posted by divegeesterI don't think anyone cares if your grandparents wore high button shoes either.
No one really "cares" if your organisation's leadership makes errors, if their prophesies fail to come true or if their doctrines are wrong. What is interesting is that JWs will not accept these errors have occurred. False prophesy is an indication of error. We all know this.
Despite protestations to the contrary, the WatchTower organisation present ...[text shortened]... p of fallible people, is one of aspect which indicates that the Jehovah's Witness church a cult.
Times have advanced.
We learn as we study more.
Did you ever make mistakes when you were in school?
No doubt we all have.
(Proverbs 4:18) But the path of the righteous is like the bright morning light That grows brighter and brighter until full daylight.
I don't see the light getting any brighter in any other religion!
06 Oct 15
Originally posted by roigamJust a point further (o you who knows nothing about JW's).
I don't think anyone cares if your grandparents wore high button shoes either.
Times have advanced.
We learn as we study more.
Did you ever make mistakes when you were in school?
No doubt we all have.
(Proverbs 4:18) But the path of the righteous is like the bright morning light That grows brighter and brighter until full daylight.
I don't see the light getting any brighter in any other religion!
The WT Society has always made known publically any misunderstandings they have taught.
People don't generally know that because they have not read the WT and Awake magazines regularly throughout the years.
We now publish Bible information in 700+ languages worldwide so the world has an opportunity to learn about Jehovah.
The success we experience is evidence of
God's backing.
Over 8.5 million are Jehovah's Witnesses worldwide.
From that fact alone, JW's are obviously not a cult.
06 Oct 15
Originally posted by roigamOne more thought for your consumtion.
Just a point further (o you who knows nothing about JW's).
The WT Society has always made known publically any misunderstandings they have taught.
People don't generally know that because they have not read the WT and Awake magazines regularly throughout the years.
We now publish Bible information in 700+ languages worldwide so the world has an opportunit ...[text shortened]... million are Jehovah's Witnesses worldwide.
From that fact alone, JW's are obviously not a cult.
When their is a disaster first responders go house to house looking for possible survivors.
Adam and Eve caused a disaster in the Garden of Eden when they rebelled against Jehovah.
We go house to house worldwide looking for potential survivors.
It's a sign of the times:
(Matthew 24:14) And this good news of the Kingdom will be preached in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come.
06 Oct 15
1 edit
Originally posted by roigamWell I agree .. still in school .. as we all are.
I don't think anyone cares if your grandparents wore high button shoes either.
Times have advanced.
We learn as we study more.
Did you ever make mistakes when you were in school?
No doubt we all have.
(Proverbs 4:18) But the path of the righteous is like the bright morning light That grows brighter and brighter until full daylight.
I don't see the light getting any brighter in any other religion!
But that is coming through your mouth.
The doctrine coming out of the mothership Watchtower is another story.
Brighter yes .. because you probably now emerging from the darkness... its called an optical illusion.