Discrimination against Christians in UK

aOriginally posted by avalanchethecat
Really? My mother's, mother was born Jewish, but converted when she married my mother's father. Are you saying that makes me Jewish?

If you wanted to make aliyah in Israel, you could claim Jewish heritage. I lived there 4 years, I know what I am talking about.

Originally posted by DeepThought
I checked, the figure (that 48% of people in UK have "no faith" ) is bunk. The most reliable figure for this comes from the relevant 2011 census data table [1]. 33 million of 56 million people in England and Wales described themselves as Christian (58%.). The next largest religion was Islam at 4.8%. 14 million described themselves as having no religi ...[text shortened]... estion (7%.).

[1] http://www.nomisweb.co.uk/census/2011/QS208EW/view/2092957703?cols=measures

Ahh, but it's more complicated than that. The BHA commissioned a survey just after the census
that found that a significant number of people answer the question "what is your religion" on the
census form with "Christian" for cultural reasons, and do not in fact believe in god or go to church.
And thus would be considered to be atheists even if they don't self identify as such.
The BHA had a major campaign based on the fact that the question leads to the false impression
that levels of religiosity/theism are higher than they actually are. The ongoing and long-standing
efforts of religions like Christianity to malign and misrepresent atheists and atheism, including
the suggestion that you must disbelieve in gods existence to be an atheist and that you cannot
have morality without god contribute to peoples disinclination to adopt the 'atheist label' when it
is applicable.

https://humanism.org.uk/campaigns/religion-and-belief-some-surveys-and-statistics/census-2011-results/

https://humanism.org.uk/campaigns/religion-and-belief-some-surveys-and-statistics/the-british-social-attitudes-survey/

Originally posted by sonhouse
If you wanted to make aliyah in Israel, you could claim Jewish heritage. I lived there 4 years, I know what I am talking about.

Hmm that sounds like a pretty interesting thing to do. Would I have to pretend to be religious?

Originally posted by googlefudge
Ahh, but it's more complicated than that. The BHA commissioned a survey just after the census
that found that a significant number of people answer the question "what is your religion" on the
census form with "Christian" for cultural reasons, and do not in fact believe in god or go to church.
And thus would be considered to be atheists even if they ...[text shortened]... k/campaigns/religion-and-belief-some-surveys-and-statistics/the-british-social-attitudes-survey/

It's always is more complicated than that. Those are the canonical figures and if people say they are Christian they are Christian.

Originally posted by DeepThought
It's always is more complicated than that. Those are the canonical figures and if people say they are Christian they are Christian.

Yeah because people never lie or misunderstand the question or etc etc.

People claim to be 'Christian' who don't believe in the biblical Christ, don't go to church,
and don't believe in a god.

Those people are atheists, they might be 'cultural Christians' [and deeply confused] but they
are also atheists. They don't believe in a god.

If you base policy on the numbers in the census, then it's important if those numbers are right.

If you can completely change the numbers by changing how you ask the question, then those
numbers are not reliable.

Originally posted by googlefudge
Yeah because people never lie or misunderstand the question or etc etc.

People claim to be 'Christian' who don't believe in the biblical Christ, don't go to church,
and don't believe in a god.

Those people are atheists, they might be 'cultural Christians' [and deeply confused] but they
are also atheists. They don't believe in a god.

If you b ...[text shortened]... change the numbers by changing how you ask the question, then those
numbers are not reliable.

By that token the 25% of people who responded "no religion" stated solely that they have no religion, this is not the same as believing that there is no God. Someone may believe that there is a creator God, but refuse to take part in any organised religion regarding it as a purely personal thing (or else they're apathetic - there is a God and if I don't bother him he won't bother me...), and therefore answers "no religion" when faced with the question as asked, despite believing in a Creator God.

Regarding policy, I can't think of any particular area where the difference between a cultural identification and an actual belief matters. The cultural identification would be enough to retain the Church of England as the established church in this country.

People answered the question given in the way they felt best described their identity. I'd be wary of second guessing their intentions.

Originally posted by DeepThought
By that token the 25% of people who responded "no religion" stated solely that they have no religion, this is not the same as believing that there is no God. Someone may believe that there is a creator God, but refuse to take part in any organised religion regarding it as a purely personal thing (or else they're apathetic - there is a God and if I don't ...[text shortened]... e way they felt best described their identity. I'd be wary of second guessing their intentions.

By that token the 25% of people who responded "no religion" stated solely that they have no religion, this is not the same as believing that there is no God. Someone may believe that there is a creator God, but refuse to take part in any organised religion regarding it as a purely personal thing (or else they're apathetic - there is a God and if I don't bother him he won't bother me...), and therefore answers "no religion" when faced with the question as asked, despite believing in a Creator God.

Yes, I fully agree with this, it's entirely possible and indeed plausible that some people did this.

Those census numbers are now looking even more suspect aren't they.

Regarding policy, I can't think of any particular area where the difference between a cultural identification and an actual belief matters. The cultural identification would be enough to retain the Church of England as the established church in this country.

Well to quote the BHA in answer to your question:
https://humanism.org.uk/campaigns/religion-and-belief-some-surveys-and-statistics/census-2011-results/

The information collected from the 2001 census was used to justify:

Increasing the number of 'faith' schools

Encouraging Collective Worship in Schools

Granting large amounts of public funding and support to 'interfaith' and faith-based
organisations above the support offered to non-religious organisations

Increasing the role of faith in Britain under the Coalition Government

Appointing government advisors on faith

Contracting out public services to religious organisations

Keeping 26 Church of England Bishops in the House of Lords as of right

Continuing the dedication of a high number of hours to religious broadcasting

Granting specific consultation at government and local levels with 'faith
communities' over and above other groups within society

Continuing privileges for religious groups in equality law and other legislation

The inaccurate figures presented by the censuses can lead to further discrimination
against non-religious people and greater privileging for religious groups and individuals.

And I don't think a person identifying as a 'cultural Christian' [translate as they like Christmas and Easter holidays]
justifies any of that.

People answered the question given in the way they felt best described their identity.
I'd be wary of second guessing their intentions

Um, you mean like the way you just second guessed their intentions?

The data in the link above demonstrates that people give wildly different answers depending on how you word/frame
the question. With the way it is framed in the Census leading to radically higher numbers of people reporting being
religious. Given that, it seems highly dangerous to assume that the numbers in the census bear more than a passing
resemblance to reality. Such misleading data is worse than useless as it means that people think they know the answer
when in reality the answer isn't known.