12 Aug 09
Originally posted by rwingettIt's always funny how much creationists think they know about evolution, but in fact know nothing.
Have you ever read anything on evolution that didn't come from a creationist website?
It's easy to show for even a 5-years old the main principle of evolution, they get it, but how hard it is to expalin to a creationist.
What are they afraid of? Why do they deny the most fantastic part of gods creation?
12 Aug 09
Originally posted by whodeyAssuming that the man was confirmed to be dead by any definition, and that the man didn't then
So what would your reaction be if you saw a miracle? For example, what if you saw someone raised from the dead?
disappear never to be seen again, I would have to ask myself how that's possible within the
physical world. The resurrection itself I suppose could happen if through some incredible means
every cell in his body could jolt, be repaired in an instance and begin working anew. Then the
question is how that could happen. I mean the first time the cells jolt to life, they do so one after
the other in a very controlled environment, and then it takes years to develop a grown man's
body. Is the only possible explanation that some divine being blew life into his body again? Or is it
possible that through technological means (unknown to me) dead bodies can be reactivated?
Being the ultimate sceptic I am, no matter how incredible such technology sounds to me, I would
have to assume that this technology exists and that somehow it can be used from a distance (or
some kind of nano technology perhaps). The alternative sounds far more incredible to me.
Now all I have to do is test my assertion. How? Presumably this is a one time event, but I would
need to see this more than once to study the "phenomenon". That's when we start to gain deeper
knowledge that has a higher degree of credibility. When we can reproduce the same conditions,
observe the events and get the exact same results. So, unless this happens more than once
where I can foresee it and observe it in more detail, I will always have to wonder exactly how it
happened (or if my sanity has left me).
A miracle is merely a rare event that we can't yet explain, but the fact that it could be observed
tells us that it happened within the laws of physics. If we can't explain it, it merely means that we
don't yet have enough knowledge about the physical world, nothing else.
12 Aug 09
Originally posted by whodeyI'm glad the the concept of miracles is broutht up in the Spiritaul Forum. Because it is a religious phenomenon, not a scientific phenomenon.
So what would your reaction be if you saw a miracle? For example, what if you saw someone raised from the dead?
If a miracle can be explained, it is no longer a miracle. So by the very nature of a miracle is that it cannot be explained. And that's what religion is all about.
12 Aug 09
Originally posted by FabianFnasIt's just that anything that happens in the physical world can be explained, whether or not we
I'm glad the the concept of miracles is broutht up in the Spiritaul Forum. Because it is a religious phenomenon, not a scientific phenomenon.
If a miracle can be explained, it is no longer a miracle. So by the very nature of a miracle is that it cannot be explained. And that's what religion is all about.
understand it at this time. Miracles simply doesn't exist.
12 Aug 09
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Originally posted by JigtieThe reason I ask is that I know a nurse who is an agnostic and she works in an ICU. Anyhew, there was a lady in the ICU who coded and died. They then brought the family in to view her and they began to pray. Well about an hour later they were still there and then the nurse began to her praising and singing to God. It struck her to be very odd, to say the least, but then one of them came to her and asked what that little bleep on the monitor indicated. The patient had come back to life and was perfectly fine afterwards.
Assuming that the man was confirmed to be dead by any definition, and that the man didn't then
disappear never to be seen again, I would have to ask myself how that's possible within the
physical world. The resurrection itself I suppose could happen if through some incredible means
every cell in his body could jolt, be repaired in an instance and begin means that we
don't yet have enough knowledge about the physical world, nothing else.
The nurse told me that by all accounts the patient should had her "brain fried" from all the epiniphrine they pushed on her to try and get her heart started again. Also, she had been dead at least for 45 minutes from her observation so the question remained as to how she could be dead so long without any brain damage from a lack of O2. She then smiled at them later and told them that if she ever wound up in the ICU that she wanted them to pray for her!!
The odd thing was, however, even though she witnessed the miracle and had no explanation, she remained an agnostic. I suspect, it would not have changed your mind as well. So the quesion begs, how much evidence does one need? I suppose in your case it would require putting God on a leash in order to test whether this could be done repeatidly.