Dogs, hogs, camels and asses.

Originally posted by tomtom232
Is it falsity they are defending or themselves? Do they understand the falsity to be false or do they unerstand it to be true? If they understand the falsity to be true is it a lie for them to defend it as truth or would it be a lie to defend and present as truth what they understand to be false?

Is it them or their understanding that is false?

It is their understanding that is false.

But when that false understanding is corrected and they continue to defend their falsity to the bitter end - they then enter the realm of dishonesty.

Most persons who defend falsity do not enquire into why their belief is false and simply hold tightly to their falsity.

This holding tightly to falsity and not finding out why it is false is the beginning of their dishonesty.

Originally posted by Dasa
It is their understanding that is false.

But when that false understanding is corrected and they continue to defend their falsity to the bitter end - they then enter the realm of dishonesty.

Most persons who defend falsity do not enquire into why their belief are false and simply hold tightly to their falsity.

This holding tightly to falsity and not finding out why it is false is the beginning of their dishonesty.

How is their understanding corrected? Can I correct their understanding for them? Can you? Or do they have to correct it themselves? If they have to correct it themselves then once they correct it and understand what is true to be true and what is false to be false then will they not cease to defend what is false?

Originally posted by Dasa
Humans who waste this life for only eating, sleeping, mating and defending are like animals.

It is you who is declaring fellow humans to be "wast[ing]" their lives "only eating, sleeping, mating and defending" - regardless of what their spiritual belief system actually is [as long as it differs from yours] and then it is you who is declaring them to be "like animals". Evidently nobody here on this Forum accepts this. I don't, clearly. I think your analysis of fellow humans, while undoubtedly honest, is flawed - pessimistic, misanthropic, insulting, simplistic, self-absorbed. Despite your sincerity, your outlook and religionist nostrums have no apparent traction in this community - even though it is populated with thoughtful people.

Originally posted by Dasa
Dogs, dogs, camels and asses are animals.

Animals do not engage in true religion or spirituality.

In fact they do not care for religion.

Also when you speak to them about God they do not want to hear.

They are interested in pleasing their tongues and genitals and sleeping and defending..

In fact that's all they are interested in doing for their e ...[text shortened]... ot want to understand God - are like the animals.

Would you agree?

Vedanta says they are.

Agree? Lets back up. Forget the comparison to animals for a minute.
I bet if you treated everyone as an enlightened master you would not have this problem.

It is not the outside world that is the problem - it is you, it is us.
If you treat even the lowliest of people as a buddha, then you will not have this problem.
It is a fine line, to be sure.
I can only guage on you on your posting history, and that would tell me that you are a very divisive person, (ie. I'm right, you're wrong).

Yes, you are here to expose falsitiy. Where to from here? Surely not back to the melodrama with FMF, divegeester, nook7,etc.

Where to from here,Dasa? Let's evolve. Remember, you dont really know what type of flower you are , only that you will flower - in this life or the next. It does not matter.

All these people here are all on your side. Even the ones that aren't

If someone is incarnated as a human they should be treated as potential gods,(if you have a spiritual bent), no matter how unevolved they may seem 🙂

Originally posted by Dasa
It is their understanding that is false.

But when that false understanding is corrected and they continue to defend their falsity to the bitter end - they then enter the realm of dishonesty.

Declaring your subjective beliefs to be "truth" and then accusing those who disagree with you of lying - or being "dishonest" as you put it - is not going to work, Dasa. Does your "transcendental knowledge" not equip you with more than just animal "analogies" and other insults for engaging with people who have different belief systems from you?

Originally posted by Dasa
Dogs, dogs, camels and asses are animals.

Animals do not engage in true religion or spirituality.

In fact they do not care for religion.

Also when you speak to them about God they do not want to hear.

They are interested in pleasing their tongues and genitals and sleeping and defending..

In fact that's all they are interested in doing for their e ...[text shortened]... ot want to understand God - are like the animals.

Would you agree?

Vedanta says they are.

Do you put animals on an equal footing with humans? if so or not why? And how does your response fit with your view of reincarnation?

Originally posted by karoly aczel
Agree? Lets back up. Forget the comparison to animals for a minute.
I bet if you treated everyone as an enlightened master you would not have this problem.

It is not the outside world that is the problem - it is you, it is us.
If you treat even the lowliest of people as a buddha, then you will not have this problem.
It is a fine line, to be sure ...[text shortened]... d as potential gods,(if you have a spiritual bent), no matter how unevolved they may seem 🙂

I treat everyone as the eternal spiritual being that they are.

And it is because of that I even bother be here.

But when appealing to their bewildered minds then you have it tell it like it is.

I am not going to deceive everyone with niceties to gain there favour - and have an artificial friendship.

The spiritual life is healthy life - natural.

It is this materialistic atheistic life that is not healthy and not natural.

If I give people the truth of the spiritual life then I have given them the highest and greatest offering - and I am then considered their true friend.

Originally posted by divegeester
Do you put animals on an equal footing with humans? if so or not why? And how does your response fit with your view of reincarnation?

Bhagavad Gita 5:18

vidya-vinaya-sampanne brahmane gavi hastini
suni caiva sva-pake ca panditah sama-darsinah

SYNONYMS

vidya--education; vinaya--gentleness; sampanne--fully equipped; brahmane--in the brahmana; gavi--in the cow; hastini--in the elephant; suni--in the dog; ca--and; eva--certainly; sva-pake--in the dog-eater (the outcaste); ca--respectively; panditah--those who are so wise; sama-darsinah--do see with equal vision.

TRANSLATION
The humble sage, by virtue of true knowledge, sees with equal vision a learned and gentle brahmana, a cow, an elephant, a dog and a dog-eater [outcaste].

PURPORT
A Krsna conscious person does not make any distinction between species or castes. The brahmana and the outcaste may be different from the social point of view, or a dog, a cow, or an elephant may be different from the point of view of species, but these differences of body are meaningless from the viewpoint of a learned transcendentalist.

This is due to their relationship to the Supreme, for the Supreme Lord, by His plenary portion as Paramatma, is present in everyone's heart. Such an understanding of the Supreme is real knowledge. As far as the bodies are concerned in different castes or different species of life, the Lord is equally kind to everyone because He treats every living being as a friend yet maintains Himself as Paramatma regardless of the circumstances of the living entities. The Lord as Paramatma is present both in the outcaste and in the brahmana, although the body of a brahmana and that of an outcaste are not the same. The bodies are material productions of different modes of material nature, but the soul and the Supersoul within the body are of the same spiritual quality. The similarity in the quality of the soul and the Supersoul, however, does not make them equal in quantity, for the individual soul is present only in that particular body whereas the Paramatma is present in each and every body.

A Krsna conscious person has full knowledge of this, and therefore he is truly learned and has equal vision. The similar characteristics of the soul and Supersoul are that they are both conscious, eternal and blissful. But the difference is that the individual soul is conscious within the limited jurisdiction of the body, whereas the Supersoul is conscious of all bodies. The Supersoul is present in all bodies without distinction.

Originally posted by Dasa
Bhagavad Gita 5:18

vidya-vinaya-sampanne brahmane gavi hastini
suni caiva sva-pake ca panditah sama-darsinah

SYNONYMS

vidya--education; vinaya--gentleness; sampanne--fully equipped; brahmane--in the brahmana; gavi--in the cow; hastini--in the elephant; suni--in the dog; ca--and; eva--certainly; sva-pake--in the dog-eater (the outcaste); ca--respec ...[text shortened]... persoul is conscious of all bodies. The Supersoul is present in all bodies without distinction.

Sorry, but can you just respond to the question yourself - briefly.

Originally posted by Dasa
I treat everyone as the eternal spiritual being that they are.

And it is because of that I even bother be here.

But when appealing to their bewildered minds then you have it tell it like it is.

I am not going to deceive everyone with niceties to gain there favour - and have an artificial friendship.

The spiritual life is healthy life - natural.

I ...[text shortened]... have given them the highest and greatest offering - and I am then considered their true friend.

Yes, but not one size fits all. This is the problem with christians as well.

Take someone like Agerg. You think the same stuff is going to work on him as everyone else?

I know you think you are telling it like it is, and that's fine, but where to from here? (I hope it's not the same ol',same ol'😉

We gots to be more compassionate.

Give a dog a bone.

After all, thats what the dog wants. Nothing wrong there, it's only your ,(or my) perception that says that this is this or that- when it is neither.

So where to from here?

Surely not the science forum😳

Originally posted by tomtom232
How is their understanding corrected? Can I correct their understanding for them? Can you? Or do they have to correct it themselves? If they have to correct it themselves then once they correct it and understand what is true to be true and what is false to be false then will they not cease to defend what is false?

?

Originally posted by Dasa
I treat everyone as the eternal spiritual being that they are.

You try to dehumanize people with insulting "analogies" that compare them to non-human lifeforms for having different beliefs from you. How is that "treat[ing] everyone as the eternal spiritual being that they are"?

Originally posted by karoly aczel
I know you think you are telling it like it is, and that's fine, but where to from here?

In what way do you think the incessant abuse is "fine"?

Originally posted by FMF
You try to dehumanize people with insulting "analogies" that compare them to non-human lifeforms for having different beliefs from you. How is that "treat[ing] everyone as the eternal spiritual being that they are"?

You might as well say, "You are wrong. How are you wrong?"

The only difference between what you are doing and what, according to you, Dasa is doing is that you refrain from insults and stating your counter-belief.

Originally posted by tomtom232
The only difference between what you are doing and what, according to you, Dasa is doing is that you refrain from insults and stating your counter-belief.

That is quite a big difference you state there.