Dreams and visions

Originally posted by twhitehead
Do you actually think before you post? Do you seriously think anyone would be jealous of God?

Also, I wonder if you can explain to us why Christians like you are so fond of conversion stories, and "The Church is growing" stories. Do you feel insecure? Are you not completely convinced that your religion is true and you need to constantly keep looking for evidence of it and tell others about it as a means of deliberate self assurance?

No not being jealous of God but of muslims.

Originally posted by FMF
It's an interesting anecdote. And its content is pretty much as I imagined. That's why I shared my anecdotal evidence with you. Some of the converts I know [and have known] were more sincere and committed than others. It sounds like your Iranian friend is really into the change she's made. Have you met any Americans who have converted to Islam?

It's an interesting anecdote. And its content is pretty much as I imagined. That's why I shared my anecdotal evidence with you. Some of the converts I know [and have known] were more sincere and committed than others. It sounds like your Iranian friend is really into the change she's made. Have you met any Americans who have converted to Islam?

Since the early 1970s when I began to seriously have a relationship with God I have encountered all kinds of people.

It is very difficult to surprise me in regard to people claiming that they USE to be this and are NOW something else.

Even the Apostle Paul said that he had co-workers who forsook his teaching.

" ... Demas has abandoned me, having loved the present world, and has gone to Thessalonica ..." ( 2 Timothy 4:10)

Demas was a fellow apostle with the Apostle Paul. Though we do not have the details, somewhere along the way, Demas decided that the present world was more attractive to him then serving the Lord Jesus Christ. Demas said "Forget about this stuff." And broke away his association with Paul in pursuit of whatever it was that now loomed larger in his heart than God.

And of course Demas is not the only one spoken of in this way. The very existence of Judas Iscariot proves that no matter how close one gets to Christ he may choose to become a loud and proud something else.

Do you remember the gospel story of the people who were crouded around Jesus pressing Him. And in the midst of the crowd one person TOUCHED Him and was healed. Jesus had to ask "Who touched Me?".

I think the record of that story is insightful. A lot of people are "crowded" around Jesus. Fewer touch Jesus.

Sure, I know people who will say "Yea. I was in that crowd alright. Now though, I am no longer a believer in Christ."

That takes care of a large number of people. They were culturally perhaps "crowded" around Jesus. But they never touched Jesus within. The throng, the crowd, the mob pressing close to Jesus, that is. Some come out of the crowd and say that they no longer follow Jesus.

Having said that, I admit to also having met some other cases. There are people who say they got bitter with God and now no longer believe in God.
Some of these, to my realization, actually could have been in a relationship with Christ.

Some of these folks have moved away from God. God didn't move. But they moved. Like the bumper sticker I read that said -

"If you don't feel close to God, guess who moved ?"

I am convinced from what I read that Bob Dylon met Christ. I think some time afterwards Bob Dylon decided he no longer was a Christian and dove into Judiasm.

I am convinced from what I read the Eldridge Cleaver met Jesus Christ in prison. Some time afterward this man also said he no longer was a Christian and dove, I think, into Islam.

The New Testament also speaks of some believers who made "shipwreck" of their faith because of something not dealt with in their conscience.

I do not believe that once a person is born again he can be unborn again. I do believe that bitterness or some disappointment or disgust with religion might cause a person to want to proclaim that they no longer are Christians.

Its okay. Some children are not at all on good speaking terms with their parents too, for a time.

Originally posted by sonship
I do not believe that once a person is born again he can be unborn again. I do believe that bitterness or some disappointment or disgust with religion might cause a person to want to proclaim that they no longer are Christians.

I am no longer a Christian but I feel no bitterness or disappointment about it. I simply do not believe anymore. If I were not to "proclaim" this - as you put it - in discussions on a forum like this, I think it would be disingenuous of me. I choose instead to be open and honest about it.

I can't think of many of my friends or acquaintances who either converted to Islam or converted to Christianity [here] did so out of "bitterness or disappointment or disgust". It was just the nature of the spiritual path that they took, at least in some cases.

If you've had life experiences or interpersonal relationships that have led you to see people changing their beliefs or their religious doctrine through some kind of prism that sees "bitterness or disappointment or disgust", then so be it.

I do not believe that once a person is born again he can be unborn again.

Well then, presumably you will never believe any testimony or evidence that contradicts what you "do not believe" which means you can just keep on saying you "do not believe" it.

Originally posted by FMF
I am no longer a Christian but I feel no bitterness or disappointment about it. I simply do not believe anymore. If I were not to "proclaim" this - as you put it - in discussions on a forum like this, I think it would be disingenuous of me. I choose instead to be open and honest about it.

I can't think of many of my friends or acquaintances who either conver ou "do not believe" which means you can just keep on saying you "do not believe" it.

Well then, presumably you will never believe any testimony or evidence that contradicts what you "do not believe" which means you can just keep on saying you "do not believe" it.

Okay. You want me to believe that you were once as me and now you are not. And this was a perfectly peaceful transition and you have so such anger or bitterness as such I speak of.

Okay. I take your word at face value. Nothing particular happened to you. You just decided one day that Jesus was no longer believable.

Having granted you that at face value, excuse me please. I still love the Lord.

Originally posted by RBHILL
No not being jealous of God but of muslims.

Ah. It makes more sense now. Sorry for misunderstanding.

I still think it unlikely that anyone who believes God gave Muslims dreams would get jealous and give you a thumbs down.

Originally posted by twhitehead
Ah. It makes more sense now. Sorry for misunderstanding.

I still think it unlikely that anyone who believes God gave Muslims dreams would get jealous and give you a thumbs down.

Dont get me worng but my first post is common sense. Also I am a Christian and i am jealous of non believer of having dreams of jesus.