- Joined
- 31 May 06
- Moves
- 1795
26 Feb 15
Originally posted by SuzianneMy eyes ARE open to the truth.
I don't have the slightest farking clue what your life is like. I know nothing about it. But I do know that opening your eyes to truth WILL make it better. It IS kind of a no-brainer. 🙂
It is you who's eye's are closed.
And either way, truth doesn't have to be nice, or helpful... It just has to be true.
It is true that there is no afterlife, many people [not me] find this to be sad
or upsetting... However it's still true.
Rationality is hard work, too hard for anyone to be all rational all the time.
It's an aspiration rather than a destination.
But it's the only thing that actually reliably works by anything other than
blind luck.
- Joined
- 31 May 06
- Moves
- 1795
26 Feb 15
Originally posted by SuzianneUm, people, including me, have been using the phrase for years...
You only started using it after I used it in a post replying to you.
Go on, credit me. I won't mind. 😀
You may not have noticed, but you probably subconsciously picked it up
from us.
Memory plays tricks on you like that.
- Joined
- 29 Dec 08
- Moves
- 6788
26 Feb 15
Originally posted by Suzianne"We are stripped of any knowledge of God, and then sent here as infants to grow up and to learn about God from scratch."
But we are here for a reason. I know this runs counter to what most atheists think, but this is where our souls are tested. We are stripped of any knowledge of God, and then sent here as infants to grow up and to learn about God from scratch. The test is whether we follow God or not, not based on what we already know, but what we learn. Life is a wondro ...[text shortened]... cop to a plan to 'get it over with' so we can get to 'the good stuff'. That is not God's plan.
I wonder what can get in the way of learning about God "from scratch." People tend to grow up into the religion of their parents/family/tribe. We learn what to believe from the most important people in our world, whom we implicitly trust as authorities on what is real. Can this be the first phase of learning from scratch? If so, most of the people in this world will have to turn away from the religion of their youth if they are going to achieve salvation -- or so say certain of those religions. If we are to do this "from scratch" it means that we should expect to have a crisis of faith at some point in our lives, in which our adopted faith is put to the test.
I suppose the response is that God's plan takes this into account and we will be given this chance, and so none of us is exempt from personal responsibility for our deathbed faith.
26 Feb 15
Originally posted by googlefudgeOooooooooooh, a dare. Luckily, we have Matthew 4:7 to guide us here: "Jesus said unto him, It is written again, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God." Of course, He was referencing Deuteronomy 6:16. But that's all moot here.
If presented with sufficient evidence I will believe that a god or gods exist.
I will never worship any gods, or anything or anyone else for that matter.
And this will never ever change under any circumstances.
You would have to alter me beyond all recognition to change my mind on this, at
which point I would no longer BE me and would thus alrea ...[text shortened]... this is pointless.
It's never ever going to happen.
Not even your god could achieve this.
"You would have to alter me beyond all recognition to change my mind on this, at which point I would no longer BE me and would thus already be dead."
Nice quotable bit there, and true, all except the last little bit. Yes, taking up a new life in Christ alters one "beyond all recognition" and yes, "at which point I would no longer BE me" is true too, because you would be born again and you would no longer be your old self. But no, you don't have to "already be dead" to experience this life-changing event. You only need to open your heart (and quiet your mind, I might add, your mind is way, WAY too busy looking for excuses).
"So all I want from your [non-existent] god is to be left alone.
Your religion doesn't allow that."
Of course my religion allows that. It's called Free Will. You're free to exercise this all you want. Be my guest. It's just that I am obligated to try to bring you to God, not because my religion demands it, but because I have love for my fellow man. Just as it is immoral for a doctor to withhold his knowledge from a sick and dying man, I believe it is immoral for a Christian to withhold his knowledge from an unbeliever, who is also sick and dying within from sin.
(Yes, I know you have heard this all before and I know you have, but you are the one who's attacked me here and I feel I must offer a defense. And yes, I do wish you would change your mind on this and I know it is extremely unlikely, but "stranger things have happened", as my example of Paul meant to show.)
In short, I hear you.
But I'm trying to get you to hear not me, but God.
26 Feb 15
Originally posted by JS357We all do have our "Road to Damascus" moment. Some get more than one.
"We are stripped of any knowledge of God, and then sent here as infants to grow up and to learn about God from scratch."
I wonder what can get in the way of learning about God "from scratch." People tend to grow up into the religion of their parents/family/tribe. We learn what to believe from the most important people in our world, whom we implicitly trus ...[text shortened]... en this chance, and so none of us is exempt from personal responsibility for our deathbed faith.
But God can only access us through the heart. If one's heart is dead, it makes the whole affair much more difficult.
- Joined
- 31 May 06
- Moves
- 1795
26 Feb 15
Originally posted by SuzianneTo tell a post is supposed to be intentionally nonsense for humorous effect it
I know, right?
I keep getting accused of not having a sense of humor, but these logicians.... sheesh...
must be noticeably different from the normal, or flagged as humour.
Particularly if you are having an otherwise serious conversation.
If you regularly spout nonsense and mean it, how is a person meant to tell when
this instance is meant as humour?
Poe's law [or it's relatives] apply.
- Joined
- 31 May 06
- Moves
- 1795
26 Feb 15
Originally posted by SuzianneNo, not a dare, or a challenge.
Oooooooooooh, a dare. Luckily, we have Matthew 4:7 to guide us here: "Jesus said unto him, It is written again, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God." Of course, He was referencing Deuteronomy 6:16. But that's all moot here.
[b]"You would have to alter me beyond all recognition to change my mind on this, at which point I would no longer BE me and wou ...[text shortened]... l meant to show.)
In short, I hear you.
But I'm trying to get you to hear not me, but God.
You don't understand.
To change me enough that I would worship anything or anyone including your god.
Would be to change me way way way way past the point where I was still
in any possible way still me.
I would no longer exist, something else would exist instead.
I would thus be dead.
That 'born again' nonsense you mention doesn't change one person into another.
26 Feb 15
Originally posted by googlefudgeMaybe that is what they mean by "born again".
No, not a dare, or a challenge.
You don't understand.
To change me enough that I would worship anything or anyone including your god.
Would be to change me way way way way past the point where I was still
in any possible way still me.
[b]I would no longer exist, something else would exist instead.
I would thus be dead.
That 'born again' nonsense you mention doesn't change one person into another.[/b]
26 Feb 15
Originally posted by googlefudgeI have put you in the same category as sonhouse. That is the "Bah Humbug!" category. 😏
My eyes ARE open to the truth.
It is you who's eye's are closed.
And either way, truth doesn't have to be nice, or helpful... It just has to be true.
It is true that there is no afterlife, many people [not me] find this to be sad
or upsetting... However it's still true.
Rationality is hard work, too hard for anyone to be all rational al ...[text shortened]... on.
But it's the only thing that actually reliably works by anything other than
blind luck.
26 Feb 15
Originally posted by googlefudgeAs you wish, make it easy on yourself, a little bit at a time, or a book.
'The Proof' consists of a logical argument coupled with the summed total of
scientific knowledge gained over the centuries...
Given that you don't understand logic or maths, or accept many well proven
scientific facts such as the age of the universe, or evolution, you are unlikely
to accept the proof.
This is not the fault of the proof howeve ...[text shortened]... ave time for such a long post where there
is a need to carefully plan it out and structure it.
26 Feb 15
Originally posted by googlefudge"Given that you don't understand logic or maths, or accept many well proven
'The Proof' consists of a logical argument coupled with the summed total of
scientific knowledge gained over the centuries...
Given that you don't understand logic or maths, or accept many well proven
scientific facts such as the age of the universe, or evolution, you are unlikely
to accept the proof.
This is not the fault of the proof howeve ...[text shortened]... ave time for such a long post where there
is a need to carefully plan it out and structure it.
scientific facts such as the age of the universe, or evolution, you are unlikely
to accept the proof. "
I have to accept evolution, I do! I just don't accept life evolving over time
from something simple to the diverse life we see today. I do not know how
old the universe is, but I'll try to agree with whatever age you assign to it,
and only ask questions with the thought that at whatever the age of the
universe is according to you, that what you suggest is true could happen in
in that amount of time.
This means that I'll not bring up scripture, just read what you tell me and
ask questions only about those proofs. If you can answer them great!