Originally posted by Grampy BobbyThankyou for taking the time to read it, its wonderfully poetic language from the Great King Solomon and one of my favourite passages. I see the usual culprits are sowing nothing but mere contention and could provide nothing that contributes to anyone's understanding, oh well. One is reminded of the phrase, 'blind guides'.
Thanks, robbie...........
Originally posted by SuzianneEvery assertion was backed up by a scriptural reference and you would do much better than you are at present to pay attention to the scholarly nature of the article for you seem to be incapable of rising above the level of 'merely contentious' on your present diet of spiritual food.
I dunno. It reminded me somewhat of the Jethro Tull song "Aqualung". The JWs always have to taint everything with their bizarro dogma.
05 Apr 16
Originally posted by robbie carrobiePerhaps if Grampy Bobby had been willing to share his insight into your post we would have all benefited and improved our understanding.
I see the usual culprits are sowing nothing but mere contention and could provide nothing that contributes to anyone's understanding...
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The cut and paste from the JW site I think was a good exposition about how Solomon was symbolically talking about the aging of the physical body. The loss of hearing, the decaying of teeth, the fear of heights, the diminution of strength, the gloom of old age, etc. I have read this kind of exegesis of Ecclesaistes 12 before from a Christian writer. I found it insightful then as well as now.
It is not the first time I have seen that kind of exposition of Ecclesiastes 12. And the first time I read it it was in a book by a Christian author who I am pretty certain did NOT derive it from the Jehovah's Witnesses.
It is not wise to always dismiss some portion of exposition simply because the Jehovah's Witnesses published it.
To repeat, one must be cautious not to reject some portion of Bible exposition simply because it appears in JW publication. What I WOULD like sometime to know is who first gave this kind of explanation of that chapter.
05 Apr 16
Originally posted by sonshipActually anyone with any kind of poetic understanding could probably grasp most of the passage simply by thinking about it deeply.
The cut and paste from the JW site I think was a good exposition about how Solomon was symbolically talking about the aging of the physical body. The loss of hearing, the decaying of teeth, the fear of heights, the diminution of strength, the gloom of old age, etc. I have read this kind of exegesis of [b]Ecclesaistes 12 before from a Christian writer. I ...[text shortened]... ULD[/i] like sometime to know is who first gave this kind of explanation of that chapter.[/b]
05 Apr 16
Originally posted by sonshipTo be clear, I am not dismissing it and have not said that I do in this thread.
The cut and paste from the JW site I think was a good exposition about how Solomon was symbolically talking about the aging of the physical body. The loss of hearing, the decaying of teeth, the fear of heights, the diminution of strength, the gloom of old age, etc. I have read this kind of exegesis of [b]Ecclesaistes 12 before from a Christian writer. I ...[text shortened]... ULD[/i] like sometime to know is who first gave this kind of explanation of that chapter.[/b]
05 Apr 16
Originally posted by robbie carrobieScholarly? No, it is you trying to ram your bizarro dogma down everyone's throat. You don't miss an opportunity to taint the discussion with it.
Every assertion was backed up by a scriptural reference and you would do much better than you are at present to pay attention to the scholarly nature of the article for you seem to be incapable of rising above the level of 'merely contentious' on your present diet of spiritual food.
Originally posted by SuzianneYou still seem unable to transcend being merely contentious. If it really is the best you have to offer then I suspect that you need a period of introspection to try to overcome it. This is the spirituality forum, people come here to discuss and express their beliefs, if you are unhappy about that then perhaps this is not the forum for you.
Scholarly? No, it is you trying to ram your bizarro dogma down everyone's throat. You don't miss an opportunity to taint the discussion with it.
It's true that what JW's believe is not "run of the mill". It may seem bizarre to many.
There is a reason why that appears that way.
(Matthew 7:13, 14) “Go in through the narrow gate, because broad is the gate and spacious is the road leading off into destruction, and many are going in through it; 14 whereas narrow is the gate and cramped the road leading off into life, and few are finding it.
We don't follow the broad way. We follow the narrow way, Jehovah's way through His son Christ Jesus.
Jehovah's thinking is greater than our thinking.
(Isaiah 55:8, 9) “For my thoughts are not your thoughts, And your ways are not my ways,” declares Jehovah. 9 “For as the heavens are higher than the earth, So my ways are higher than your ways And my thoughts than your thoughts.
Originally posted by roigamInteresting circular reasoning. Besides there is nothing "bizarre"about the scriptures you quote, neither do they support your JW orientated belief structure.
It's true that what JW's believe is not "run of the mill". It may seem bizarre to many.
There is a reason why that appears that way.
(Matthew 7:13, 14) “Go in through the narrow gate, because broad is the gate and spacious is the road leading off into destruction, and many are going in through it; 14 whereas narrow is the gate and cramped the road leading o ...[text shortened]... higher than the earth, So my ways are higher than your ways And my thoughts than your thoughts.
Believing it is acceptable to bully members who disagree with your teachings or want to leave your religious organisation, holding dangerous beliefs about blood, not permitting your children to celebrate or have presents on their birthdays etc, these are the beliefs and practices which are "bizarre".
09 Apr 16
Originally posted by Grampy BobbyMatthew Henry Commentary on Ecclesiastes 12:1-14:
Matthew Henry Commentary on Ecclesiastes 12:1-14:
"II. A reason to enforce this command: While the evil days come not, and the years of which thou shalt say I have no pleasure in them. 1. Do it quickly, (1.) "Before sickness and death come. Do it while thou livest, for it will be too late to do it when death has removed thee from this state of tr ...[text shortened]... e Ps. 71:17, 18" (to be continued) https://www.blueletterbible.org/Comm/mhc/Ecc/Ecc_012.cfm?a=671001
"How can we expect God should help us when we are old, if we will not serve him when we are young? See Ps. 71:17, 18. [1.] The decays and infirmities of old age are here elegantly described in figurative expressions, which have some difficulty in them to us now, who are not acquainted with the common phrases and metaphors used in Solomon's age and language; but the general scope is plain-to show how uncomfortable, generally, the days of old age are.
First, Then the sun and the light of it, the moon and the stars, and the light which they borrow from it, will be darkened. They look dim to old people, in consequence of the decay of their sight; their countenance is clouded, and the beauty and lustre of it are eclipsed; their intellectual powers and faculties, which are as lights in the soul, are weakened; their understanding and memory fail them, and their apprehension is not so quick nor their fancy so lively as it has been; the days of their mirth are over (light is often put for joy and prosperity) and they have not the pleasure either of the converse of the day or the repose of the night, for both the sun and the moon are darkened to them.
Secondly, Then the clouds return after the rain; as, when the weather is disposed to wet, no sooner has one cloud blown over than another succeeds it, so it is with old people, when they have got free from one pain or ailment, they are seized with another, so that their distempers are like a continual dropping in a very rainy day. The end of one trouble is, in this world, but the beginning of another, and deep calls unto deep. Old people are often afflicted with defluxions of rheum, like soaking rain, after which still more clouds return, feeding the humour, so that it is continually grievous, and therein the body, as it were, melts away.
Thirdly, Then the keepers of the house tremble. The head, which is as the watch-tower, shakes, and the arms and hands, which are ready for the preservation of the body, shake too, and grow feeble, upon every sudden approach and attack of danger. That vigour of the animal spirits which used to be exerted for self-defence fails and cannot do its office; old people are easily dispirited and discouraged.
Fourthly, Then the strong men shall bow themselves; the legs and thighs, which used to support the body, and bear its weight, bend, and cannot serve for travelling as they have done, but are soon tired. Old men that have been in their time strong men become weak and stoop for age, Zec. 8:4. God takes no pleasure in the legs of a man (Ps. 147:10), for their strength will soon fail; but in the Lord Jehovah there is everlasting strength; he has everlasting arms.
Fifthly, Then the grinders cease because they are few; the teeth, with which we grind our meat and prepare it for concoction, cease to do their part, because they are few. They are rotted and broken, and perhaps have been drawn because they ached. Some old people have lost all their teeth, and others have but few left; and this infirmity is the more considerable because the meat, not being well chewed, for want of teeth, is not well digested, which has as much influence as any thing upon the other decays of age..."
(to be continued) https://www.blueletterbible.org/Comm/mhc/Ecc/Ecc_012.cfm?a=671001
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Thanks, Suzianne, for this fascinating commentary
15 Apr 16
Originally posted by robbie carrobie.... leading the blind.
Thankyou for taking the time to read it, its wonderfully poetic language from the Great King Solomon and one of my favourite passages. I see the usual culprits are sowing nothing but mere contention and could provide nothing that contributes to anyone's understanding, oh well. One is reminded of the phrase, 'blind guides'.