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02 Jan 22
@ghost-of-a-duke saidOk, but before I respond to that, what created life and consciousness in the atheist’s view, if not non-life and mindlessness?
The problem with making generalized statements about atheists is that they believe in a wide array of things. You would be the first to object If I presumed all theists, including JWs, believed the same things and then proceeded to tell you what they were.
Random mutations are not the same as blind chance, as progression is made with only the good mutations. (It's ...[text shortened]... arly claim the 2 successful ones were blind luck while ignoring the 998 that missed? Think about it.
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02 Jan 22
@great-big-stees saidThe only true and living God. The God of the Holy Bible.
Which one of the plethora of the “Gods” begot life...as we “know” it?🤔
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02 Jan 22
@pb1022 saidOf course. The others be damned, right? There can only be one True God and it is the “Christian” one.
The only true and living God. The God of the Holy Bible.
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02 Jan 22
@pb1022 saidAre you now ready to respond to:
Ok, but before I respond to that, what created life and consciousness in the atheist’s view, if not non-life and mindlessness?
Say, for example, I threw 1000 rolled-up pieces of paper into a bin and only managed to get 2 of them in. Would you similarly claim the 2 successful ones were blind luck while ignoring the 998 that missed? Think about it.
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02 Jan 22
@ghost-of-a-duke saidI don’t get the analogy.
Are you now ready to respond to:
Say, for example, I threw 1000 rolled-up pieces of paper into a bin and only managed to get 2 of them in. Would you similarly claim the 2 successful ones were blind luck while ignoring the 998 that missed? Think about it.
First of all, you need to improve your aim and you’re wasting way too much paper.
Second, are you implying there is intelligence, or some guiding force, behind random mutations or natural selection? If so, what is it?
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02 Jan 22
@ghost-of-a-duke saidNo way. Haven’t you heard of Muslims abandoning Islam for Christianity at tremendous personal risk? I didn’t become a Christian until I had read the Holy Bible on my own and investigated the evidence for the Resurrection of Jesus Christ, which is what Christianity was founded upon.
I don't know much about you, but can state with confidence if you had been born in India, for example, you would most probably be claiming the one true God was Brahman.
I think I would have eventually read the Bible regardless of where I lived because I believe evidence has to support belief and faith.
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02 Jan 22
@great-big-stees saidExactly right.
Of course. The others be damned, right? There can only be one True God and it is the “Christian” one.
False gods existed in Biblical times just as they exist today.
An atheist once said everyone worships the same God but just call Him different names. That’s be true if it weren’t for Jesus Christ.
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02 Jan 22
2 edits
@pb1022 saidSpend longer with it.
I don’t get the analogy.
First of all, you need to improve your aim and you’re wasting way too much paper.
Second, are you implying there is intelligence, or some guiding force, behind random mutations or natural selection? If so, what is it?
I'll give you 24 hours.
Hint: The guiding force is survival of the fittest, ( of the successful.) It is nothing to do with intelligence, in the way you mean. How do you balance that with random chance? - Look again at the analogy.
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02 Jan 22
@PB1022
Okay, done waiting.
"Say, for example, I threw 1000 rolled-up pieces of paper into a bin and only managed to get 2 of them in. Would you similarly claim the 2 successful ones were blind luck while ignoring the 998 that missed? Think about it."
What does the bin hold? It isn't 2 lucky bits of rolled-up paper, it's the 2 successful bits of rolled-up paper, the 2 that were best thrown, that adapted best to the challenge. However, this success came on the back of the 998 misses. (Trial an error).
So it is with mutations. Only a few good ones have to occur for progress to be made. Bad ones go down evolutionary dead ends. The ones that survive best prosper.
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02 Jan 22
@ghost-of-a-duke saidI think you should consider the, in my view, mathematical impossibility of random mutations and natural selection not only assembling cells and DNA, which are very complex and whose complexity was unknown in Darwin’s time, but entirely separate species when such species have irreducibly complex features.
@PB1022
Okay, done waiting.
"Say, for example, I threw 1000 rolled-up pieces of paper into a bin and only managed to get 2 of them in. Would you similarly claim the 2 successful ones were blind luck while ignoring the 998 that missed? Think about it."
What does the bin hold? It isn't 2 lucky bits of rolled-up paper, it's the 2 successful bits of rolled-up p ...[text shortened]... or progress to be made. Bad ones go down evolutionary dead ends. The ones that survive best prosper.
I honestly believe it’s impossible, and long-running experimental attempts at speciation with bacteria and fruit flies, which have very short generational spans, went nowhere.
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02 Jan 22
@pb1022 saidThe factor you are excluding is 'time.' Evolution has had 4 billion years to do its thing and for complex life forms to develop.
I think you should consider the, in my view, mathematical impossibility of random mutations and natural selection not only assembling cells and DNA, which are very complex and whose complexity was unknown in Darwin’s time, but entirely separate species when such species have irreducibly complex features.
I honestly believe it’s impossible, and long-running experimental atte ...[text shortened]... at speciation with bacteria and fruit flies, which have very short generational spans, went nowhere.
(Please stop talking about the fruit flies.)
02 Jan 22
@pb1022 saidYou 'think' you would have read the Bible, but you can't be sure, can you. Your religious beliefs are founded on the random chance of where you were born and raised, a bit like evolution, really.
No way. Haven’t you heard of Muslims abandoning Islam for Christianity at tremendous personal risk? I didn’t become a Christian until I had read the Holy Bible on my own and investigated the evidence for the Resurrection of Jesus Christ, which is what Christianity was founded upon.
I think I would have eventually read the Bible regardless of where I lived because I believe evidence has to support belief and faith.
Anyway, if we're looking for evidence of evolution we need look no further than the dear old Covid virus, which has been mutating like there's no tomorrow over the past couple of years. Delta this, Omicron that, my goodness evolution has been busy....What the virus is 'trying' to do is to spread to as many hosts as possible without killing them, and so far Omicron seems to have nailed it, so (fortunately for us) it becomes the dominant virus. Of course it isn't 'consciously' trying to change, it can't 'think' for itself, it's an example of random evolutionary mutation, (like throwing bits of paper into a bin) , the virus form which is the most successful will survive, the rest will quickly be consigned to evolutionary history, like about 99.9999% of species which have existed on earth so far.
Evolution at work in your own back yard, or do you think your god's been controlling the virus as well, killing off a few million people, saints and sinners, Christians and Muslims alike, and then deciding just to give us a nasty cold instead? It's all random chance, just like your religious beliefs.