09 Feb 08
1 edit
Originally posted by TheSkipperAs I told you God has not been scientifically proved.
wtf? Are you on wifi right outside the tower of babel, or something?
Please, provide me with evidence for the existence of God.
No direct proof but there are hints and more reasons to believe in God than denying His existence.
09 Feb 08
1 edit
Originally posted by HFRorbisThat's quite the strawman argument.
So , thinking that A does not exist is not a proof or an argument.
And if there are many more reasons to believe that A exists than denying His/its existence then you are more likely to believe in the existence of A.
No one is saying that denying god exists is a proof of god not existing.
10 Feb 08
try this: dont believe in god, and let him come to you. if he never comes, he doesn't exist; save yourself from wasting your life away on something nonexistent. what you are doing right now (theists) is assuming he exists. one day, when you die, you will stop existing and you will never know you were wrong since youre dead but you will have wasted your only life you had.
10 Feb 08
Originally posted by EcstremeVenomEven if God doesn't exist, I certainly am not wasting my life. My life is dominated by peace and joy in the midst of every trial and tribulation. I'm also perpetually thankful that I have found deliverance from habitual sin. To me, this is victory and the best life possible. What exactly am I missing out on by believing in Jesus Christ?
try this: dont believe in god, and let him come to you. if he never comes, he doesn't exist; save yourself from wasting your life away on something nonexistent. what you are doing right now (theists) is assuming he exists. one day, when you die, you will stop existing and you will never know you were wrong since youre dead but you will have wasted your only life you had.
10 Feb 08
Originally posted by Jorge BorgesWell, this is what I call the aesthetic side to religion: living within the aesthetics of a particular religious framework—Christian or otherwise. I use the word “aesthetics” to refer broadly to finding beauty, joy, harmony and coherence in one’s life. And I think this aspect sometimes is too easily dismissed. It is the aspect about which I sometimes say that religion is closer to Beethoven than to biology.
Even if God doesn't exist, I certainly am not wasting my life. My life is dominated by peace and joy in the midst of every trial and tribulation. I'm also perpetually thankful that I have found deliverance from habitual sin. To me, this is victory and the best life possible. What exactly am I missing out on by believing in Jesus Christ?
Now there are, of course, people who can take the same religious paradigm and make of it only ugliness, fear, frustration, anger, etc. That is the same with any religion. The same musical scale can be used to produce jarring noise or a beautiful symphony. What you produce with it is up to you.
I don’t know why a Christian, per se, has to miss out on anything in terms of living a joyful and harmonious life. Again, that depends on how they live out their religion. (Back in the day when we had cable TV, I would sometimes watch various Sunday preachers—with the sound off. I often thought that their demeanor, facial expressions and body language showed what kind of “good news” they actually believed in. What was in their eyes? Was it joy and love? Or anger? Or power-lust? Or smugness? Or fear?)
Aesthetics are, of course, no proof of the theological or philosophical truth claims of a religion. The fact that you live a joy-filled life and also believe that there is a God is not really evidence for the existence of such a God; it is only evidence of how your beliefs affect the living out of your life. The fact that I live a joy-filled life and also do not believe that there is a God is no evidence against the existence of a God; it is no more than evidence of how my beliefs affect the living out of my life.
Well, this is pretty disjoint, and I’m likely not being clear; and whatever connections there are between beliefs and aesthetics are likely a lot more complex. I’ll just give two quotes, from two different religious traditions:
“Joy is not merely incidental to the spiritual journey: it is essential.” (Rebbe Nachman of Bratslav)
“A sad saint is a sorry saint.” (Santa Theresa de Avila)
10 Feb 08
Originally posted by TheSkipperIt is a matter of state, you and I believe in two different things.
Yes, but the theist is making extraordinary claims and the atheist is not.
EDIT: I'm still having trouble with the lack of belief in somethings existence being characterized as a "claim".
God and no God when it comes to what fills and directs the universe.
The state of things is either one with God, or one without, you are
very specific when you say Jesus' Father isn't real, or that Jesus isn't
the Son of God, that claim about something by saying this isn't
true or real means you are taking a position on the matter. To hide
behind the verbiage 'lack of belief' as being some how different than
saying that is true and that is not is cowardly in my opinion, a matter
of playing with words to hide behind a position you claim is true.
You can say you reject the notion, that is at least honest, you can say
you reject the teachings that would be at least honest, you can say you
don’t believe, and when you renounced your previous claims about
knowing God you can say you were mistaken, and what you thought
you had wasn’t real, you did not ever really knew God at all, and all
that was in your life at that time you gave God credit for was really
luck, or herd mentality, so you cannot say you left God, because you
never really had a relationship with Him at any point in your life to
leave.
Kelly
10 Feb 08
Originally posted by Jorge Borgesyou are missing out on the only life you will ever have. by devoting this life to your afterlife, you are not living it to the fullest. when you are dead, your devotion will leave you w/ nothing since afterlife is non-existent.
Even if God doesn't exist, I certainly am not wasting my life. My life is dominated by peace and joy in the midst of every trial and tribulation. I'm also perpetually thankful that I have found deliverance from habitual sin. To me, this is victory and the best life possible. What exactly am I missing out on by believing in Jesus Christ?