Spirituality
15 Sep 05
16 Sep 05
Originally posted by bbarrIt is statistically possible because it has happenned.
O.K. Then, 'yes', speciation is statistically possible. That is, the probability of speciation having happend is greater than 0. Of course, any process that is nomologically possible will have a probability greater than 0.
Hordeum vulgare has speciated out of Hordeum spontaneum within the last 10000yrs
Triticum aesticum has speciated out of a three way hybridisation / polyploidation within the last 8000years.
Evidence? you drink beer made from one and eat bread made from the other
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16 Sep 05
Originally posted by lucifershammerEr, yea, thanks. I think I might have been refering to a 'flower' as "a plant that is cultivated or appreciated for its blossoms". e.g. a daisy.
Er, dj2 - "flowers" are not a taxonomic group. They're just the reproductive organs of a large class of plants.
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16 Sep 05
1 edit
Originally posted by aardvarkhomeI need not point out the logical fallicies in your assertions.
It is statistically possible because it has happenned.
Hordeum vulgare has speciated out of Hordeum spontaneum within the last 10000yrs
Triticum aesticum has speciated out of a three way hybridisation / polyploidation within the last 8000years.
Evidence? you drink beer made from one and eat bread made from the other
It's like you saying the reason that you are here is proof that you evolved!
I could say that the reason why I am here is proof that I was created!
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16 Sep 05
Originally posted by aardvarkhomeI was just prodding the question a little deeper...
And if you don't like the evidence I try and wriggle out of it with a meaningless semantic arguement. The question was speciation, you got speciation.
I am fully aware that you have provided evidence for 'variations within a kind'.
'Macroevolution" needs much more than 'variations within a kind'.
16 Sep 05
Originally posted by dj2beckerI'm asserting nothing. I'm talking about a large body of data.
I need not point out the logical fallicies in your assertions.
It's like you saying the reason that you are here is proof that you evolved!
I could say that the reason why I am here is proof that I was created!
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16 Sep 05
1 edit
Originally posted by aardvarkhomeI am afraid you are asserting that "your large body of data" proves something that has never been observed.
I'm asserting nothing. I'm talking about a large body of data.
Just don't call it Science, pal. Science has to do with things that can be observed and demostrated to give the same results again and agian.
It's more like a fairy tale for adults.
16 Sep 05
Originally posted by dj2beckerThe domestication of cereals is recorded....in the bible!
I am afraid you are asserting that "your large body of data" proves something that has never been observed.
Just don't call it Science, pal. Science has to do with things that can be observed and demostrated to give the same results again and agian.
It's more like a fairy tale for adults.
16 Sep 05
Originally posted by dj2beckerBarley first appears in pre-agriculture sites in the near east 17000-10000 bp as remains of brittle rachis two row forms identifiable as H. vulgare ssp spontaneum (Zohary, 1994 ). The earliest report is from Ohalo II, a submerged Palaeolithic site on the southern shore of Lake Galilee and was found in association with remains of wild emmer wheat. The site is dated at c. 17000 bp. Sites dated at 11000-1000 bp at Mureybit, Tell Abu Hureyra and Tell Aswad in Syria have similar remains. Spontaneum barleys were found in association with domesticated emmer wheat in sites dating 9500-8700 bp. The first unmistakably cultivated barleys with non brittle rachis appeared around 9750 bp in pre-pottery Neolithic sites at Netiv Hagdud, Tell Abu Hureyra phase II, Tell Aswad and Jarmo in Iraq. (Zohary, 1994 ).
I am afraid you are asserting that "your large body of data" proves something that has never been observed.
Just don't call it Science, pal. Science has to do with things that can be observed and demostrated to give the same results again and agian.
It's more like a fairy tale for adults.
Barley continued to be an important crop through the Neolithic in Western Asia with an increasing diversity of forms such as naked types and six rowed forms found in cultivated contexts. Six rowed forms appeared as early as 9500 bp at Abu Hureyra and at Ali Kosh. In the earliest phases only two row barley appeared but sporadic six row forms appeared with time. In Anatolia six rowed forms, both hulled and naked, became well established by 8000 bp being represented at both Catal Huyuk and Hacilar. During the 6th millennium bp six rowed hulled barley became the dominant cereal in the river valleys of Mesopotamia. During the Near Eastern Chalcolithic and Bronze Age hulled barleys were common, outnumbering wheat, possibly because of its adaptability barley was more capable of moving into marginal environment, depleted soils or irrigated areas with high salinity. (Hillman 1990) (Zohary, 1994 )
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16 Sep 05
Originally posted by aardvarkhomeAnother excellent example of microevolution.
Barley first appears in pre-agriculture sites in the near east 17000-10000 bp as remains of brittle rachis two row forms identifiable as H. vulgare ssp spontaneum (Zohary, 1994 ). The earliest report is from Ohalo II, a submerged Palaeolithic site on the southern shore of Lake Galilee and was found in association with remains of wild emmer wheat. The si ...[text shortened]... nvironment, depleted soils or irrigated areas with high salinity. (Hillman 1990) (Zohary, 1994 )
