Evolutionists Appropriating ID?

Originally posted by KellyJay
There was no intent to detract from respectability or knowledge, it was simply said
to make sure we are all on the same page here. NOTHING any can tell anyone
else about that which may have occured billions of years ago can be anything but
a best guess. You either saw it or you did not, if you did not your simply looking at
things around you and putting evist our truth. So
we walk in the truth we believe we have we are creatures of faith.
Kelly

Do you not agree that knowing which alleged revelation is correct, is a "best guess" situation? After all, we have more than one to choose from.

Originally posted by JS357
Do you not agree that knowing which alleged revelation is correct, is a "best guess" situation? After all, we have more than one to choose from.

I would say yes, you are correct.
It isn't like there is only one claim of revelation, it boils down to faith.
Who do you believe, what are you going to do with that belief?
What is real, the truth is really the only thing that matters.
If all beliefs are wrong, who cares, if one or some are right what then?
Kelly

Originally posted by KellyJay
I would say yes, you are correct.
It isn't like there is only one claim of revelation, it boils down to faith.
Who do you believe, what are you going to do with that belief?
What is real, the truth is really the only thing that matters.
If all beliefs are wrong, who cares, if one or some are right what then?
Kelly

You say, "What is real, the truth is really the only thing that matters."

You seem to say our ideas about reality are only our best guess.

Is "What is real, the truth is really the only thing that matters" a guess?

Originally posted by KellyJay
I'm not going to repeat myself I've hit these points before you just don't want to
see the answers.
Kelly

Maybe you are not seeing the question? I do not think you have answered my question. I am not asking you to repeat yourself, I am asking you to admit that you have two contradictory claims and that you must therefore give up one of them.

Originally posted by KellyJay
You either saw it or you did not, if you did not your simply looking at
things around you and putting together what you think occured. This will never be
shown wrong unless someone who was around to know how it all began speaks
up.

We have had this discussion before. Seeing is not believing. Seeing and personally witnessing is also a 'best guess' as is easily shown by magic tricks.
There is nothing about personally witnessing or second hand witnessing that makes it inherently more reliable than other forms of evidence.
In fact scientifically confirmed evidence is far more reliable than the evidence of an unreliable witness.

Originally posted by JS357
You are much more tolerable when you just say what you think about the subject, like you do here, than when you mock and insult. However, you don't really address the subject of what makes a best guess the best, and the roles of collective thinking and intuition in that "hunch". These subjects are in line with what Kelly says about our ability to know what is ...[text shortened]...
Your commitment to your Christianity would be, after all, no more than your best guess, too.

Yes, you could say my belief in Christianity is my best guess; but it is also the best guess that brings the best rewards, if correct. What is the benefit of guessing Atheism is correct?

Originally posted by RJHinds
Yes, you could say my belief in Christianity is my best guess; but it is also the best guess that brings the best rewards, if correct. What is the benefit of guessing Atheism is correct?

So is the best guess best because it is correct? Or is the best guess best because it brings the best rewards?

Originally posted by twhitehead
Maybe you are not seeing the question? I do not think you have answered my question. I am not asking you to repeat yourself, I am asking you to admit that you have two contradictory claims and that you must therefore give up one of them.

As I said, I've responded to these and you either refuse to acknowledge them
or didn't grasp it. Either way I'm not going to repeat myself, and no I don't at all
believe I've given you contradictory claims, you can go one believing that as you
can everything else you believe.
Kelly

Originally posted by RJHinds
What is the benefit of guessing Atheism is correct?

You're trying to project the characteristically religionist concept of "reward" or "benefit" onto a non-religionist set of beliefs, so your question is loaded and doesn't work.

Originally posted by JS357
You say, "What is real, the truth is really the only thing that matters."

You seem to say our ideas about reality are only our best guess.

Is "What is real, the truth is really the only thing that matters" a guess?

I'm saying your ideas and mine about reality are just that ideas! Your beliefs about
what is real and mine are just that, beliefs. What is real does not at depend upon
what I think or believe, it is what it is. If you want to suggest that one's beliefs
are closer to the truth than another, okay have at it. I've pointed out since no one
here knows at all how it all began, and we cannot prove what we do believe we are
left with something less than even a good guess! Not knowning how it all got here
means that our best guess on how things changed over time are really based upon
anything but something that speaks to the true orgins of the universe. We can
look at snap shots in the now, look at the little bit of time we have had and then
form a guess upon something quite beyond our reach.
Kelly

Originally posted by KellyJay
As I said, I've responded to these and you either refuse to acknowledge them
or didn't grasp it.

And as I said, I do not believe you have responded to them. I also think you are avoiding doing so (as you almost always do with difficult questions).

Originally posted by twhitehead
And as I said, I do not believe you have responded to them. I also think you are avoiding doing so (as you almost always do with difficult questions).

Believe what you will, I've answered your questions more than once and I'm not
going to do it again.
Kelly

Originally posted by KellyJay
I've pointed out since no one here knows at all how it all began, and we cannot prove what we do believe we are left with something less than even a good guess! Not knowning how it all got here means that our best guess on how things changed over time are really based upon anything but something that speaks to the true orgins of the universe.

And I dispute that claim.
I say that I do know some things about how what happened in the past and that I can prove it and that it is more than a good guess. I do not believe that knowing the origin of the universe is a prerequisite for knowing what happened yesterday or knowing what happened 100, 1000, 1 million or 1 billion years ago.

I would even go as far as to say that even if we are in the Matrix and it was switched on yesterday, then reality within the matrix is the apparent history within the matrix which may go back prior to switch on time - and can be known.

Originally posted by KellyJay
Believe what you will, I've answered your questions more than once and I'm not
going to do it again.
Kelly

My understanding so far of what you have said in this thread is:
1. You claimed that accepting the scientific account required believing in fairy tales.
2. To justify this you claimed that it was highly improbably that certain things could have taken place as described by the scientific account, so highly improbably that you find it unreasonable to accept that it took place.
3. After some discussion, you totally changed your course and then said that what you really meant was that believing anything requires believing in fairy tales and that all beliefs are equivalent.
4. You also stated that the scientific account cannot be disproved and will always have a reasonable explanation available - contradicting your arguments in 2.

Originally posted by KellyJay
I'm saying your ideas and mine about reality are just that ideas! Your beliefs about
what is real and mine are just that, beliefs. What is real does not at depend upon
what I think or believe, it is what it is. If you want to suggest that one's beliefs
are closer to the truth than another, okay have at it. I've pointed out since no one
here knows at all ...[text shortened]... bit of time we have had and then
form a guess upon something quite beyond our reach.
Kelly

If whatever we are forming a snapshot of is beyond our reach, we have to make do with the snapshot. Do you have any ideas and beliefs that are immune to this problem?