Originally posted by sonshipToo bad for you that Christ [the sole authority on the kingdom] said something else and you choose to path of least resistance the easy route that leads to damnation.There is a thread which someone started which asked about what gives eternal life and Jaywill quoted a passage which he said means that all you need to do is to confess Christ with your mouth. Jaywill concluded by saying that loving God or your neighbour is not stated by Paul. The implication is that it is not important.
The passage you ...[text shortened]... in order to be saved. It is not the only thing the New Testament teaches if that is your beef.
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Some posters impress me as someone who only can talk about one thing on this Forum - the criteria of salvation.
Every thread in which you participate seems that you gravitate to this one argument.
There is a saying that if the only tool you have is a hammer then every problem looks like a nail.
There are about three threads where you are conversing with me. All of them have you stressing this one matter of the means of obtaining eternal life.
This is not always an easy matter in the New Testament. To the phrase "eternal life" there are few nuances of emphasis.
There is eternal life entering into the man.
And there is the man entering into eternal life.
There is the assurance that the believer HAS eternal life.
And there is the exhortation to lay hold on eternal life after being a Christian.
There are a few different nuances to the usage of the phrase. And the ambiguity may be exploited by some people like yourself in order to teach something contrary to justification by faith.
The same is true with the word "saved" or "salvation" . There are some nuances to the usage of those words too. Some of us try to see in context these different nuances.
If you think that you can exploit some of these nuances to show believing into Christ is not necessary for Christ's salvation, or being reborn is not necessary, or faith in Christ is not necessary to salvation or eternal life, forget it as far as this poster is concerned.
But any verses you think are problematic I am ready to discuss.
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Too bad for you that Christ [the sole authority on the kingdom] said something else and you choose to path of least resistance the easy route that leads to damnation.
You're good at these little rhetorical flourishes. But when pressed you don't have the time to really explain.
It seems that the one choosing the least resistance route of ease is Rajk999.
Originally posted by sonshipThe easy route Jaywill is to confess Christ with your mouth with the expectation that you will get eternal life for doing nothing.
Too bad for you that Christ [the sole authority on the kingdom] said something else and you choose to path of least resistance the easy route that leads to damnation.
You're good at these little rhetorical flourishes. But when pressed you don't have the time to really explain.
It seems that the one choosing the least resistance route of ease is Rajk999.
The hard route is what Christ said. Read it and see if it is easy.
Originally posted by sonshipNothing in the Bible is worth anything if you fail to understand and to DO that which gives eternal life.
Some posters impress me as someone who only can talk about one thing on this Forum - the criteria of salvation.
Every thread in which you participate seems that you gravitate to this one argument.
There is a saying that if the only tool you have is a hammer then every problem looks like a nail.
There are about three threads where you are conve ...[text shortened]... oster is concerned.
But any verses you think are problematic I am ready to discuss.
You can talk and discuss until you die but it is worth nothing if you do not follow Christ. So you enjoy your long Pharisical explanations and analysis and interpretations .. Have fun.
Originally posted by Rajk999Well, perhaps it's a little dubious to put it in quotes if it's a mere implication.
There is a thread which someone started which asked about what gives eternal life and Jaywill quoted a passage which he said means that all you need to do is to confess Christ with your mouth. Jaywill concluded by saying that loving God or your neighbour is not stated by Paul. The implication is that it is not important.
Originally posted by Rajk999"Your works/righteousness are as filthy rags." Isa 64:6
.. , ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven. Matt 5:20
Righteousness = godliness and good works = love and charity to others
These are the words of Jesus Christ. No righteousness means No entry into Gods Kingdom
Here are the words of Jaywill and many others :
"Just confess that you believe in Christ with your mouth you will ...[text shortened]... important. You will still enter into the Kingdom. "
Who do you trust? Christ or Jaywill?
You cannot earn salvation, this is a core principle of the Christian faith. This is not to diminish obedience and discipline in any way.
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Originally posted by Rajk999
The easy route Jaywill is to confess Christ with your mouth with the expectation that you will get eternal life for doing nothing.
The hard route is what Christ said. Read it and see if it is easy.
The easy route Jaywill is to confess Christ with your mouth with the expectation that you will get eternal life for doing nothing.
The passage you refer to is in Romans 10:9. And it is the Apostle Paul not jaywill who wrote this.
You paid nothing to be saved in that passage. Jesus is the one who paid everything.
You confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord. You believe in your heart that God raised Jesus from the dead. And you will be saved.
Your macho boasting about what you think you can do means nothing.
The hard route is what Christ said. Read it and see if it is easy
So it says "you will be saved" . But you say "you will [NOT] be saved."
I believe what it says - "you will be saved" .
I reject what you want to change it TO - "you will [NOT] be saved."
Now if you're not too lazy bring on your arguments.
Originally posted by sonshipWhat shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? Certainly not! How shall we who died to sin live any longer in it? Or do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death? Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.The easy route Jaywill is to confess Christ with your mouth with the expectation that you will get eternal life for doing nothing.
The passage you refer to is in Romans 10:9. And it is the Apostle Paul not jaywill who wrote this.
You paid nothing to be saved in that passage. Jesus is the one who paid everything.
You confess ...[text shortened]... "you will [NOT] be saved."
Now if you're not too lazy bring on your arguments.[/b]
Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body, that you should obey it in its lusts. And do not present your members as instruments of unrighteousness to sin, but present yourselves to God as being alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness to God. For sin shall not have dominion over you, for you are not under law but under grace.
What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? Certainly not! Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness? But God be thanked that though you were slaves of sin, yet you obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine to which you were delivered. And having been set free from sin, you became slaves of righteousness.
But now having been set free from sin, and having become slaves of God, you have your fruit to holiness, and the end, everlasting life. For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
(Romans 6:1-4,12-18,22-23 NKJV)
The Instructor
Originally posted by divegeesterIsaiah says no such thing.
"Your works/righteousness are as filthy rags." Isa 64:6
You cannot earn salvation, this is a core principle of the Christian faith. This is not to diminish obedience and discipline in any way.
Its a core principle of your faith.
Christ said the opposite.
Originally posted by Rajk999But we are all like an unclean thing,
Isaiah says no such thing.
Its a core principle of your faith.
Christ said the opposite.
And all our righteousnesses are like filthy rags;
We all fade as a leaf,
And our iniquities, like the wind,
Have taken us away.
(isaiah 64:6 NKJV)
The Instructor
For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God. For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.” Now to him who works, the wages are not counted as grace but as debt.
But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness, just as David also describes the blessedness of the man to whom God imputes righteousness apart from works:
“Blessed are those whose lawless deeds are forgiven,
And whose sins are covered;
Blessed is the man to whom the Lord shall not impute sin.”
For the promise that he would be the heir of the world was not to Abraham or to his seed through the law, but through the righteousness of faith. For if those who are of the law are heirs, faith is made void and the promise made of no effect, because the law brings about wrath; for where there is no law there is no transgression.
Therefore it is of faith that it might be according to grace, so that the promise might be sure to all the seed, not only to those who are of the law, but also to those who are of the faith of Abraham, who is the father of us all (as it is written, “I have made you a father of many nations&rdquo😉 in the presence of Him whom he believed—God, who gives life to the dead and calls those things which do not exist as though they did; who, contrary to hope, in hope believed, so that he became the father of many nations, according to what was spoken, “So shall your descendants be.” And not being weak in faith, he did not consider his own body, already dead (since he was about a hundred years old), and the deadness of Sarah’s womb. He did not waver at the promise of God through unbelief, but was strengthened in faith, giving glory to God, and being fully convinced that what He had promised He was also able to perform. And therefore “it was accounted to him for righteousness.”
Now it was not written for his sake alone that it was imputed to him, but also for us. It shall be imputed to us who believe in Him who raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead, who was delivered up because of our offenses, and was raised because of our justification.
(Romans 4:1-8,13-25 NKJV)
And he believed in the LORD, and He accounted it to him for righteousness.
(Genesis 15:6 NKJV)
The Instructor
Originally posted by RJHindsDid you read the whole chapter?
But we are all like an unclean thing,
And [b]all our righteousnesses are like filthy rags;
We all fade as a leaf,
And our iniquities, like the wind,
Have taken us away.
(isaiah 64:6 NKJV)
The Instructor[/b]
How does that contradict what Christ said about good works?
Originally posted by Rajk999I did not say it contradicted anything Christ said about good works. I was only responding to your disbelief as to what was in Isaiah. Surely we should do the good works that Christ speaks of once we believe in Him. However, it is our faith that is counted for righteousness and not the amount of good deeds that we do. We may be rewarded for those good deeds, but we are not saved because of them.
Did you read the whole chapter?
How does that contradict what Christ said about good works?
The Instructor
I think what Isaiah is telling us is that if all we had were our good deeds in heaven, then it would appear if we were clothed in filthy rags; but if we also have faith, then we are given clean white clothing to wear. The clean white clothing represents the righteousness of Christ that we obtain by having faith and believing in him. Then the good deeds that we do in love will count for something more than just filty rags.
The Instructor