Originally posted by whodeyAs we see in the Bible, the issue really is power and money. We see Jesus only railed against the religious leaders of his day as proof of what I am talking about here
The issue is that the Catholic church is wealthy and politically connected. This is how they keep their offending priests out of jail and continue in their positions, albeit maybe in another city.
The Catholic church is more inclined towards this I think because they don't allow their priests to marry.
Having said that, any orgnanization that has a great deal of wealth and political connections is open to simliar issues.
Once money and power enter the equation, people have money to protect, elections to win, and control to be expanded at any cost, including the truth.
People can also fall victim to vices of pleasure.
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What's wrong with Hebrews 11:1? Granted, there are variations:
http://biblehub.com/hebrews/11-1.htm
New International Version
Now faith is confidence in what we hope for and assurance about what we do not see.
New Living Translation
Faith is the confidence that what we hope for will actually happen; it gives us assurance about things we cannot see.
English Standard Version
Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen.
New American Standard Bible
Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen.
King James Bible
Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
Holman Christian Standard Bible
Now faith is the reality of what is hoped for, the proof of what is not seen.
International Standard Version
Now faith is the assurance that what we hope for will come about and the certainty that what we cannot see exists.
NET Bible
Now faith is being sure of what we hope for, being convinced of what we do not see.
Aramaic Bible in Plain English
Now faith is the conviction concerning those things that are in hope, as if it were these things in action, and the revelation of those things that are unseen;
GOD'S WORD® Translation
Faith assures us of things we expect and convinces us of the existence of things we cannot see.
Jubilee Bible 2000
Faith, therefore, is the substance of things waited for, the evidence of things not seen.
King James 2000 Bible
Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
American King James Version
Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
American Standard Version
Now faith is assurance of things hoped for, a conviction of things not seen.
Douay-Rheims Bible
Now faith is the substance of things to be hoped for, the evidence of things that appear not.
Darby Bible Translation
Now faith is [the] substantiating of things hoped for, [the] conviction of things not seen.
English Revised Version
Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the proving of things not seen.
Webster's Bible Translation
Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
Weymouth New Testament
Now faith is a well-grounded assurance of that for which we hope, and a conviction of the reality of things which we do not see.
World English Bible
Now faith is assurance of things hoped for, proof of things not seen.
Young's Literal Translation
And faith is of things hoped for a confidence, of matters not seen a conviction,
Faith is: when everything you do, everything you say, everything you think, everything you believe, everything you don't do, everything you don't say, everything you don't think, everything you don't believe, etc. is guided by this: "This (whatever you do, think, don't do, don't think etc.) is for the love of God."
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Originally posted by whodeyWhodey have you seen the recent video "Do you believe"? I watched the movie a few days ago, and found it very good. Is this what you are speaking of?
Faith is seeing the wretched and the poor and not turning away. Instead, they reach out to help.
It's about people saying they believe, and then do something about it.
Originally posted by JS357Yes, thanks for that.
What's wrong with Hebrews 11:1? Granted, there are variations:
http://biblehub.com/hebrews/11-1.htm
New International Version
Now faith is confidence in what we hope for and assurance about what we do not see.
New Living Translation
Faith is the confidence that what we hope for will actually happen; it gives us assurance about things we cannot see. ...[text shortened]... al Translation
And faith is of things hoped for a confidence, of matters not seen a conviction,
I don't think this conflicts with what I'm saying here.
Although we see the world as wicked, we see the potential for good. And when I say "we see the potential for good", we have a vision of what good can come from it.
And when confronted with seeing evil, it is more seeing the good regarding confronting the said evil and the potential good that can come from it. Again, it is not actually seeing justice in this present time, it is the vision of seeing justice in the future.
Originally posted by whodeyVery tempting to think that, but I am sure that is pure speculation (faith perhaps?) and that you have exactly zero evidence to back it up. I am willing to bet you cannot find any statistics to show that catholic priests are more likely to be paedophiles than those in another large denomination that does allow marriage (the Anglican Church for example). I can guarantee that if you do find any such statistics that you:
The Catholic church is more inclined towards this I think because they don't allow their priests to marry.
a) found them after your belief and they are not the reason for your belief.
b) found them amongst a number of other statistics saying that no such correlation exists.
Originally posted by JS357My own take on interpreting these variations: faith (in the Christic sense) is a kind of existential attitude of confidence and openness to possibility, in the face of uncertainty. Faith is most definitely (in this context) not an epistemic category.
What's wrong with Hebrews 11:1? Granted, there are variations:
http://biblehub.com/hebrews/11-1.htm
New International Version
Now faith is confidence in what we hope for and assurance about what we do not see.
New Living Translation
Faith is the confidence that what we hope for will actually happen; it gives us assurance about things we cannot see. ...[text shortened]... al Translation
And faith is of things hoped for a confidence, of matters not seen a conviction,
Originally posted by whodeyOur internal sense of right and wrong is called a conscience, not faith.
Sure it does. We all have an internal sense of right and wrong, the only question becomes, from what source if any?
We play games running from this inner voice, but only to our ill.
I'm guessing you are not going to answer my pertinent question, which was how any of the definitions in your opening posts describe how your personal faith is outwardly expressed?
Originally posted by whodeyI still don't see what corruption, sexual abuse or other vices have to do with your definitions, or indeed the biblical definition, of faith.
As we see in the Bible, the issue really is power and money. We see Jesus only railed against the religious leaders of his day as proof of what I am talking about here
Once money and power enter the equation, people have money to protect, elections to win, and control to be expanded at any cost, including the truth.
People can also fall victim to vices of pleasure.
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Originally posted by vistesdQuite simply I would say "trust" in some one or something.
My own take on interpreting these variations: faith (in the Christic sense) is a kind of existential attitude of confidence and openness to possibility, in the face of uncertainty. Faith is most definitely (in this context) not an epistemic category.
Originally posted by AgergNo. This is so wrong as to be laughable.
Faith is the obstinate rejection of senses and sense.
Just because one has faith in a higher power does not mean that they absolutely must take leave of sense and their senses. I see what I see and I can make sense of it. I can also make sense of that which I cannot see. One does not preclude the other. Faith is in addition to the material world. It is a 'second tier' of knowledge. Rather then a lacking of knowledge, as you assume it to be, it is an additional knowledge of things beyond our senses. Those of faith do not reject knowledge of the material world, rather, the faithless reject knowledge of the immaterial world. Faith is not a 'rejection' of anything. It is those who would limit their knowledge and their senses and their sense by obstinately rejecting faith who are rejecting the truth of a higher power.
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Originally posted by Suziannei am obstinately rejecting faith in a perceived untruth that a higher power actually exists. This rejection safeguards and elevates my acquired and provable knowledge.
No. This is so wrong as to be laughable.
Just because one has faith in a higher power does not mean that they absolutely must take leave of sense and their senses. I see what I see and I can make sense of it. I can also make sense of that which I cannot see. One does not preclude the other. Faith is in addition to the material world. It is a 'secon ...[text shortened]... es and their sense by obstinately rejecting faith who are rejecting the truth of a higher power.
Originally posted by SuzianneDoes this also apply to people from religions that are different from yours? Does their "faith" create "knowledge" that people should not reject?
Those of faith do not reject knowledge of the material world, rather, the faithless reject knowledge of the immaterial world.