Originally posted by SuzianneBut it is you ~ and you alone ~ who has made the questionable claim here in this public forum and not "someone else".
[b]All I have to say to you is that if you want an answer to your criticisms and questions, then perhaps you need to aim them at someone else. Perhaps someone to whom your real motivations for posting aren't so clear.[/b]
It is you has made an extraordinary claim about yourself and about "most Christians" here at RHP. Are you willing to substantiate it?
Your assertion about the strength of your faith, as compared to the strength of the faith of "most Christians" here (I gave you a list of the regular Christian posters) is not borne out by comparison of your posts and their posts, so the question remains: on what basis do you make the egocentric claim about yourself?
Originally posted by FMFGiven your viewpoint, and your motivations for some of your posts in this forum, I can't really be moved to care one whit what you think.
But it is you ~ and you alone ~ who has made the questionable claim here in this public forum and not "someone else".
It is you has made an extraordinary claim about yourself and about "most Christians" here at RHP. Are you willing to substantiate it?
Your assertion about the strength of your faith, as compared to the strength of the faith of "most Christ ...[text shortened]... r posts, so the question remains: on what basis do you make the egocentric claim about yourself?
And your questionable use of adjectives and calling me all kinds of names to "reinforce" your supposed "point" doesn't help.
Enjoy your mental masturbation, it holds zero interest for the rest of us.
Originally posted by SuzianneBe that as it may, but what about your claim that your faith is somehow stronger than many of the other Christians in this community ~ I gave you a list. How can you substantiate this assertion [1] about yourself, and [2] about the relative faith of the others? Surely, there must be more to it than you simply making the declaration? Why is there little or nothing in your posting record or in the posting records of others that makes your claim come across as true?
Given your viewpoint, and your motivations for some of your posts in this forum, I can't really be moved to care one whit what you think.
And your questionable use of adjectives and calling me all kinds of names to "reinforce" your supposed "point" doesn't help.
Enjoy your mental masturbation, it holds zero interest for the rest of us.
Originally posted by whodeyI thought I was quiet clear that I was talking specifically about faith in the existence of God the Absolute Truth and the cause of all causes.
If you have all understanding and knowledge then you don't need faith.
We all have areas where things just don't make sense or are unable to understand them. At this point we need faith.
Judging by your posts, you need faith just like the rest of us.
I have no faith at all in this Supreme Being...............because I know without doubt in the existence of God.
Whatever direction I set my gaze ...........I see the hand of God in all things and I cannot see it any other way even if I tried.
Originally posted by SuzianneThere you go again. As I said before, "most Christians here" would largely constitute those on this list: KellyJay, RBHILL, Doward, RJHinds, Grampy Bobby, Pudgenik, sonship, whodey, divegeester, josephw, lemon lime, KingOnPoint, Checkbaiter, CalJust, Rajk999, menace71, FreakyKBH, and yoctobyte. Which of these do you claim do not acknowledge that "Knowing God is real requires more faith than [they] acknowledge"?
What's clear is that you don't understand just what the definition of faith is.
"Knowing" God is real requires more faith than most here acknowledge.
Originally posted by Dasa:
"I have no faith at all in this Supreme Being...because I know without doubt in the existence of God."
To which Suzi replied:
"What's clear is that you don't understand just what the definition of faith is.
"Knowing" God is real requires more faith than most here acknowledge."
You Christians need a clearer understanding of what faith is before you can get clear about who among you has it and who among you has something else easily mistaken for it. It is not knowledge of the existence of God. One could know that God exists and still not have faith. One could know that Jehovah, the God of Abraham, exists and still not have faith. One could know that every word in the Bible is literally true and still not have faith. I grant that those who have genuine faith (and I have known a few) have knowledge--but their faith does not consist in that knowledge. In other words, the content or object of knowledge does not turn some bits of knowledge into faith.
Given that knowledge is not faith, it follows that neither can faith be belief or any other state of mind with a lesser degree of certainty. It isn't about degrees of certainty.
I recommend a book to all Christians here, of whatever denomination (including those who claim to be non-denominational Christians): “Faith and Belief, and the difference between them”, by Wilfred Cantwell Smith.
ISBN-10: 1851681655
ISBN-13: 978-1851681655
available at amazon.
Essential reading for anyone who claims to have faith. (Some here will discover that what they thought was faith is actually something else.)
Originally posted by moonbusDo you believe in God? Does the author?
Originally posted by Dasa:
"I have no faith at all in this Supreme Being...because I know without doubt in the existence of God."
To which Suzi replied:
"What's clear is that you don't understand just what the definition of faith is.
"Knowing" God is real requires more faith than most here acknowledge."
You Christians need a clearer understanding ...[text shortened]... ve faith. (Some here will discover that what they thought was faith is actually something else.)
If not, then this smacks of propaganda. The author clearly wants the reader to believe something which may or (more likely) may not be true.
"Given that knowledge is not faith, it follows that neither can faith be belief or any other state of mind with a lesser degree of certainty. It isn't about degrees of certainty."
No, this does not follow. If this is only about a re-definition of terms the author doesn't like due to some personal bias, then I'll pass, thanks.
Originally posted by moonbusAccording to whom? Him? You? Christ? (probably not the last one)
It is not just about re-defining terms. It is about what Christianity actually requires of its faithful.
Like a LOT of Christians here, some Christians' narrow view of Christianity is based on what they THINK the Bible means. Thus we get stupid ideas like a 6,000 year old universe.
Originally posted by SuzianneInteresting that you used the word "propaganda" in your previous post. W.C. Smith would have approved. The word was coined in 1622 by Christian missionaries: it means "propagation of the faith."
According to whom? Him? You? Christ? (probably not the last one)
Like a LOT of Christians here, some Christians' narrow view of Christianity is based on what they THINK the Bible means. Thus we get stupid ideas like a 6,000 year old universe.
There are a lot of people (both here at RHP and at large) who think of themselves as Christians but who do not understand what their religion really requires of them. If they did, they wouldn't like it.
According to whom, you ask? We've had this discussion before: the Bible is not the primary source whereby the Holy Ghost makes the will of God known to man. The primary source is Ecumenical Councils. Who says so? The Holy Ghost, that's who. The Holy Ghost has made known what is required (and it isn't belief or anything with a higher grade of certainty (such as knowledge)).
And, yes, there are some pretty stupid mis-interpretations.
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So Dasa, your concept is that faith is like a poor neglected widow or an abandoned orphan?
Poor, poor little faith!
We no longer need this pitiful little thing faith.
Aha! Faith NO MORE !!
We now have certain knowledge and "Faith NO MORE" allows us to dismiss the poor, wretched, piteous little weakling "faith".
Well, as a Christian I would say you have no need to hold faith in such pitiful condescending terms. That is because faith in Christ is only one side of the equation. God's FAITHFULNESS is what gives faith its power.
Without God's FAITHFULNESS our little mustered up faith is just presumption, a leap in the dark.
It is the FAITHFULNESS of Jesus Christ which empowers faith in us. He is faithful. So He feeds our faith.
Our faith in Christ is reinforced by a certain amount of confirmation that indeed we must be on the right track to trust in Christ.