Originally posted by @dj2beckerYou've got me on the ropes. You've got me in a pickle. People will think that I am a liar.
Quote the exact words from you to me that you think provides an unequivocal answer to the question I asked you on this thread. You and I both know you won't do this because they don't exist.
Originally posted by @dj2beckerMy sufficiently explained perspectives on the "Messianic Prophecies" are here on Thread 175422 should anyone apart from you be interested.
No actually you did that to yourself with no help whatsoever from me.
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Originally posted by @fmfFrom the thread you posted:
My sufficiently explained perspectives on the "Messianic Prophecies" are here on Thread 175422 should anyone apart from you be interested.
Me: So tell me exactly how you know for a fact that none of the gospel writers had actual contact with Jesus?
FMF: From evidence that I encountered in my reading over a period of many years.
My question to you is what evidence? Why don't you want to share this evidence? Are you afraid that someone will cast doubt upon it? Do you think this is you exhibiting intellectual honesty?
Originally posted by @dj2beckerI addressed this request.
My question to you is what evidence? Why don't you want to share this evidence? Are you afraid that someone will cast doubt upon it?
Originally posted by @dj2beckerYou can say this as many times as you want.
Do you think this is you exhibiting intellectual honesty?
Originally posted by @dj2beckerI didn’t follow the thread because I find you an utter bore and FMF a bit to be a little weird for indulging you for weeks on end, but I’ll say this about what I remember; FMF made it quite clear that the reason he is no longer a Christian is simply because what he regarded as “evidence” of God then, he came to realise was not “evidence” and this was partly why he decided that Christianity was not for him.
From the thread you posted:
Me: So tell me exactly how you know for a fact that none of the gospel writers had actual contact with Jesus?
FMF: From evidence that I encountered in my reading over a period of many years.
My question to you is what evidence? Why don't you want to share this evidence? Are you afraid that someone will cast doubt upon it? Do you think this is you exhibiting intellectual honesty?
I remember this quite clearly even though I only skimmed the various threads where you discussed it. You claiming not to have any recollection of it is another example of your dishonesty.
Originally posted by @divegeester to dj2beckerYou can say this as many times as you want.
You claiming not to have any recollection of it is another example of your dishonesty.
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Genesis 3:15 is a very interesting verse and often cited as a Messianic prophecy:
“And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.”
The “her seed” is unusual because it’s usually “his seed.” But because Jesus Christ was born of a virgin, the use of “her seed” makes perfect sense.
Some think the latter part of Genesis 3:15 is also a prophecy because it refers to Jesus Christ bruising the head of Satan (see earlier verses in Genesis 3) while Satan bruises Jesus Christ’s heel, which happened when Christ was crucified.
Obviously, a head wound is worse than a heel wound.
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This is an interesting prophecy from the book of Isaiah, written about 700 years before Jesus Christ arrived on earth:
“Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.”
(Isaiah 7:14)
BTW, some think the Hebrew word in this verse should have been translated as “young woman” and not “virgin,” and some Bible translations use “young woman.”
There’s a good article on why “virgin” is the more appropriate translation and I’ll post that article if I can find it.
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Originally posted by @romans1009From gotquestions.org
This is an interesting prophecy from the book of Isaiah, written about 700 years before Jesus Christ arrived on earth:
“Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.”
(Isaiah 7:14)
BTW, some think the Hebrew word in this verse should have been translated as “y ...[text shortened]... on why “virgin” is the more appropriate translation and I’ll post that article if I can find it.
“Question: "Is 'virgin' or 'young woman' the correct translation of Isaiah 7:14?"
Answer: Isaiah 7:14 reads, "Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign: the virgin will be with child and will give birth to a son, and will call him Immanuel." Quoting Isaiah 7:14, Matthew 1:23 reads, "The virgin will be with child and will give birth to a son, and they will call him Immanuel - which means, 'God with us.'" Christians point to this "virgin birth" as evidence of Messianic prophecy fulfilled by Jesus. Is this a valid example of fulfilled prophecy? Is Isaiah 7:14 predicting the virgin birth of Jesus? Is "virgin" even the proper translation of the Hebrew word used in Isaiah 7:14?
The Hebrew word in Isaiah 7:14 is "almah," and its inherent meaning is "young woman." "Almah" can mean "virgin," as young unmarried women in ancient Hebrew culture were assumed to be virgins. Again, though, the word does not necessarily imply virginity. "Almah" occurs seven times in the Hebrew Scriptures (Genesis 24:43; Exodus 2:8; Psalm 68:25; Proverbs 30:19; Song of Solomon 1:3; 6:8; Isaiah 7:14). None of these instances demands the meaning "virgin," but neither do they deny the possible meaning of "virgin." There is no conclusive argument for "almah" in Isaiah 7:14 being either "young woman" or "virgin." However, it is interesting to note, that in the 3rd century B.C., when a panel of Hebrew scholars and Jewish rabbis began the process of translating the Hebrew Scriptures into Greek, they used the specific Greek word for virgin, "parthenos," not the more generic Greek word for "young woman." The Septuagint translators, 200+ years before the birth of Christ, and with no inherent belief in a "virgin birth," translated "almah" in Isaiah 7:14 as "virgin," not "young woman." This gives evidence that "virgin" is a possible, even likely, meaning of the term.
With all that said, even if the meaning "virgin" is ascribed to "almah" in Isaiah 7:14, does that make Isaiah 7:14 a Messianic prophecy about Jesus, as Matthew 1:23 claims? In the context of Isaiah chapter 7, the Aramites and Israelites were seeking to conquer Jerusalem, and King Ahaz was fearful. The Prophet Isaiah approaches King Ahaz and declares that Aram and Israel would not be successful in conquering Jerusalem (verses 7-9). The Lord offers Ahaz the opportunity to receive a sign (verse 10), but Ahaz refuses to put God to the test (verse 11). God responds by giving the sign Ahaz should look for, "the virgin will be with child and will give birth to a son...but before the boy knows enough to reject the wrong and choose the right, the land of the two kings you dread will be laid waste." In this prophecy, God is essentially saying that within a few years' time, Israel and Aram will be destroyed. At first glace, Isaiah 7:14 has no connection with a promised virgin birth of the Messiah. However, the Apostle Matthew, writing under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, connects the virgin birth of Jesus (Matthew 1:23) with the prophecy in Isaiah 7:14. Therefore, Isaiah 7:14 should be understood as being a "double prophecy," referring primarily to the situation King Ahaz was facing, but secondarily to the coming Messiah who would be the ultimate deliverer.”
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Worth adding is the word “Behold,” which appears before the prophecy.
I think that word is generally used to denote, or in advance of, something very unusual. Would a “young woman” conceiving be so unusual? Would a “young woman” conceiving be unusual enough to be a sign from God? Surely a virgin conceiving would be very unusual and would qualify as a sign from God.
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A prophecy of the miracles that God would perform when He came to earth.
“Say to them that are of a fearful heart, Be strong, fear not: behold, your God will come with vengeance, even God with a recompence; he will come and save you.
Then the eyes of the blind shall be opened, and the ears of the deaf shall be unstopped.
Then shall the lame man leap as an hart, and the tongue of the dumb sing: for in the wilderness shall waters break out, and streams in the desert.”
(Isaiah 35:4-6)