22 Apr 09
1 edit
So let's have a look at what the Bible says about suicide. Is it a sin? Does one go straight to hell?
According to the Bible, whether a person commits suicide is not what determines whether he or she gains entrance into heaven. If an unsaved person commits suicide, he or she has done nothing but “expedite” his or her journey to the lake of fire. However, the person who committed suicide will ultimately be in hell for rejecting salvation through Christ, not because he or she committed suicide. The Bible mentions six specific people who committed suicide: Abimelech (Judges 9:54), Saul (1 Samuel 31:4), Saul's armor-bearer (1 Samuel 31:4-6), Ahithophel (2 Samuel 17:23), Zimri (1 Kings 16:18), and Judas (Matthew 27:5). Five of them were wicked, evil, sinful men (not enough is said regarding Saul's armor-bearer to make a judgment as to his character). Some consider Samson an instance of suicide (Judges 16:26-31), but Samson's goal was to kill the Philistines, not himself. The Bible views suicide as equal to murder, which is what it is—self-murder. God is the one who is to decide when and how a person should die. To take that power into your own hands, according to the Bible, is blasphemy against God.
This is not to say that suicide is not a serious sin against God. According to the Bible, suicide is murder; it is always wrong. Serious doubts would be raised about the genuineness of faith of anyone who claimed to be a Christian yet committed suicide. There is no circumstance that can justify someone, especially a Christian, taking his or her own life.
So, the million dollar question is Freddy "The MoneyMan" a Christian? It's my opinion, that he is not. For if he is/was, he would understand that suicide goes against God's Word. But in the end, only the creator truly knows the heart of this individual. Seems like a selfish action. Survived by a wife and daughter
😞
22 Apr 09
Originally posted by MrMartinThe trouble with topics like this is it touchs people where they live,
So let's have a look at what the Bible says about suicide. Is it a sin? Does one go straight to hell?
According to the Bible, whether a person commits suicide is not what determines whether he or she gains entrance into heaven. If an unsaved person commits suicide, he or she has done nothing but “expedite” his or her journey to the lake of fire. Howev ...[text shortened]... of this individual. Seems like a selfish action. Survived by a wife and daughter
😞
some may know someone who did it, some maybe thinking about it
even now. As a Christian I believe we live in a spiritual world, we are
buffet'ed by spiritual forces, some for evil some for good. Only God
is a sure foundation to our lives, you could be going through a deep
depression and it is a medical physical condition or maybe even a
spiritual attack. The truth is that no matter our ups or downs God is
a sure foundation, and if we trust God what is tempting us to destroy
ourselves will pass.
Kelly
22 Apr 09
1 edit
Originally posted by MrMartinthis is complete tosh on so many levels, firstly there is no Biblical teaching that hell, as you present it, is a literal place of torment, secondly there is going to be a resurrection of both 'the righteous and the unrighteous', therefore you're assertion that those who are 'unsaved', whatever that means, expedite to 'the lake of fire', is unadulterated tosh, thirdly the lake of fire is symbolic of destruction, not torment, which is referred to as the second death, that is death without the prospect of a resurrection, which is reserved for only those who have committed the unforgivable sin of sinning against the Holy spirit', the only unforgivable sin, so now that we have dispelled with your mythology, we can now address the real issue, that life is sacred to God, and that taking a human life, whether its another or ones own, is not permissible, however, God is a God of mercy, and one can rest assured in the knowledge that he takes every individual circumstance into consideration, the rest in utter and complete speculation!
So let's have a look at what the Bible says about suicide. Is it a sin? Does one go straight to hell?
According to the Bible, whether a person commits suicide is not what determines whether he or she gains entrance into heaven. If an unsaved person commits suicide, he or she has done nothing but “expedite” his or her journey to the lake of fire. Howev of this individual. Seems like a selfish action. Survived by a wife and daughter
😞
22 Apr 09
3 edits
Originally posted by MrMartinSkip it. I missread your post.
So let's have a look at what the Bible says about suicide. Is it a sin? Does one go straight to hell?
According to the Bible, whether a person commits suicide is not what determines whether he or she gains entrance into heaven. If an unsaved person commits suicide, he or she has done nothing but “expedite” his or her journey to the lake of fire. Howev of this individual. Seems like a selfish action. Survived by a wife and daughter
😞
22 Apr 09
Originally posted by robbie carrobieI must admit, I had to look up the word tosh. Tosh means foolish nonsense. Certainly my word for the day. Cheers 😵
this is complete tosh on so many levels, firstly there is no Biblical teaching that hell, as you present it, is a literal place of torment, secondly there is going to be a resurrection of both 'the righteous and the unrighteous', therefore you're assertion that those who are 'unsaved', whatever that means, expedite to 'the lake of fire', is unadulte ...[text shortened]... individual circumstance into consideration, the rest in utter and complete speculation!
I would like to address your comments one at a time. Let's begin with there is no biblical teaching that hell, as I have presented is a literal place of torment. I did not mention that hell was a place of torment. I simply suggest that a person expedite his/her journey to the lake of fire; but let's look at what the bible says about the lake of fire or the other word i used "hell". For arguement sake robbie, I consider both words equal. The Bible clearly and explicitly teaches that Hell is a real place to which the wicked/unbelieving are sent after death. We have all sinned against God (Romans 3:23). The just punishment for that sin is death (Romans 6:23). Since all of our sin is ultimately against God (Psalm 51:4), and since God is an infinite and eternal Being, the punishment for sin, death, must also be infinite in eternal. Hell is this infinite and eternal death, what we have earned because of our sin.
The punishment of the wicked dead in hell is described throughout Scripture as “eternal fire” (Matthew 25:41), “unquenchable fire” (Matthew 3:12), “shame and everlasting contempt” (Daniel 12:2), a place where “the fire is not quenched” (Mark 9:44-49), a place of “torment” and “fire” (Luke 16:23-24), “everlasting destruction” (2 Thessalonians 1:9), a place where “the smoke of torment rises forever and ever” (Revelation 14:10,11), and a “lake of burning sulfur” where the wicked are “tormented day and night forever and ever” (Revelation 20:10). I trust the sources i've used will help you to understand that hell is in fact a real place.
Second, Let's allow God's Word to clarify resurrection. Oh, before doing so, let me quickly explain that an unsaved person is a homosapien whom has NOT accepted Jesus as Lord and Saviour. Okay, let us continue with resurrection. Resurrection - the Bible teaches that there will be not one resurrection, but a series of resurrections, some to eternal life in heaven and some to eternal damnation (Daniel 12:2; John 5:28-29).
The first great resurrection was the resurrection of Jesus Christ. It is documented in each of the four Gospels (Matthew 28; Mark 16; Luke 24; John 20), cited several times in Acts (Acts 1:22; 2:31; 4:2, 33; 26:23), and mentioned repeatedly in the letters to the churches (Romans 1:4; Philippians 3:10; 1 Peter 1:3). The first great resurrection of the Church (body of Christ) will occur at the time of the rapture. All those who have placed their trust in Jesus Christ during the Church Age, and have died before Jesus returns, will be resurrected at the rapture. The Church Age began on the Day of Pentecost and will end when Christ returns to take believers back to heaven with Him (John 14:1-3; 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17). Another great resurrection will occur when Christ returns to earth (His Second Coming) at the end of the Tribulation period. After the rapture, the Tribulation is the next event after the Church Age in God’s chronology. This will be a time of terrible judgment upon the world, described in great detail in Revelation chapters 6-18. Though all Church Age believers will be gone, millions of people left behind on earth will come to their senses during this time and will trust in Jesus as their Savior. Tragically, most of them will pay for their faith in Jesus by losing their lives (Revelation 6:9-11; 7:9-17; 13:7, 15-17; 17:6; 19:1-2). These believers in Jesus who die during the Tribulation will be resurrected at Christ’s return and will reign with Him for a thousand years during the Millennium (Revelation 20:4, 6). There is a final resurrection, apparently of all the unbelieving dead of all ages. Jesus Christ will raise them from the dead (John 5:25-29) after the Millennium, the thousand-year reign of Christ (Revelation 20:5), and after the destruction of the present earth and universe (2 Peter 3:7-12; Revelation 20:11). This is the resurrection described by Daniel as an awakening “from the dust of the ground ... to disgrace and everlasting contempt” (Daniel 12:2). It is described by Jesus as a “resurrection of judgment” (John 5:28-29).
With respect to your comment regarding the lake of fire being symbolic of destruction not of tornment, please scroll up to the third paragraph. I believe you are victim of Annihilationism. It is the belief that unbelievers will not experience an eternity of suffering in hell, but will rather be “extinguished” after death. A belief in annihilationism results from a misunderstanding of one or more of the following doctrines: (1) the consequences of sin, (2) the justice of God, (3) the nature of hell. In relation to the nature of hell, annihilationists misunderstand the meaning of the lake of fire. Obviously if a human being were cast into a lake of burning lava, they would be instantly consumed. However, the lake of fire is both a physical and spiritual realm. It is not simply a human body being cast into the lake of fire; it is a human’s body, soul, and spirit. A spiritual nature cannot be consumed by physical fire. It seems that the unsaved are resurrected with a body prepared for eternity just as the saved are (Revelation 20:13; Acts 24:15). These bodies are prepared for an eternal fate. Hell is perhaps a primary reason why God sent Jesus Christ to pay the penalty for our sins. Being “extinguished” after death is no fate to dread, but an eternity in hell most definitely is. Jesus’ death was an infinite death, paying our infinite sin debt so that we would not have to pay it in hell for eternity (2 Corinthians 5:21). When we place our faith in Him, we are saved, forgiven, cleansed, and promised an eternal home in heaven. But if we reject God’s gift of eternal life, we will face the eternal consequences of that decision.
Finally, God's Word does agree with your comment that He is a merciful God and that final judgement is His and His only. This was expressed in my original post. Last paragraph.
Be blessed.
22 Apr 09
5 edits
Originally posted by MrMartinok, i read the very first paragraph, before we go any further, i want you to go get a Hebrew interlinear and a Greek interlinear, (you can find them freely online, although i am unaware of the sites for i have hard copies, but you can definitely get them.), come back and we can discuss the concept of hell in the context of the original languages, which have respectively been translated as hell, pit and grave, not always consistently, then we can take it from there, is it a deal?🙂 then we can discuss the other stuff
I must admit, I had to look up the word tosh. Tosh means foolish nonsense. Certainly my word for the day. Cheers 😵
I would like to address your comments one at a time. Let's begin with there is no biblical teaching that hell, as I have presented is a literal place of torment. I did not mention that hell was a place of torment. I simply suggest that s and His only. This was expressed in my original post. Last paragraph.
Be blessed.
you may also want to look up 'the lake of fire', and the word translated as 'torment'.
23 Apr 09
1 edit
Originally posted by robbie carrobieRobbie, I appreciate your enthusiasm. However, my agenda is not very flexible. I would suggest, simply post your comments and I will respond accordingly.
ok, i read the very first paragraph, before we go any further, i want you to go get a Hebrew interlinear and a Greek interlinear, (you can find them freely online, although i am unaware of the sites for i have hard copies, but you can definitely get them.), come back and we can discuss the concept of hell in the context of the original languages, whi ...[text shortened]... ff
you may also want to look up 'the lake of fire', and the word translated as 'torment'.
It's obvious, you do not agree with my view of hell and that is fine. Your comments are welcomed and will be treated with the upmost respect. I'm certain, many folks including myself would like to read what you have to say about hell and the lake of fire. I would suggest, noting your sources for review. Is it a deal?
Be blessed.
23 Apr 09
Originally posted by MrMartinWhat about Christ willingly going to the cross?
So let's have a look at what the Bible says about suicide. Is it a sin? Does one go straight to hell?
According to the Bible, whether a person commits suicide is not what determines whether he or she gains entrance into heaven. If an unsaved person commits suicide, he or she has done nothing but “expedite” his or her journey to the lake of fire. Howev ...[text shortened]... of this individual. Seems like a selfish action. Survived by a wife and daughter
😞
You know, I find it counterproductive asking the question as to who makes it into the kingdom and who does not. I suppose if you or I were making such decisions are opinions might be worth something, no?
23 Apr 09
Originally posted by MrMartinoh alas Mr Martin we have been through this at some length on a number of occasions and still have failed to reach a consensus.
Robbie, I appreciate your enthusiasm. However, my agenda is not very flexible. I would suggest, simply post your comments and I will respond accordingly.
It's obvious, you do not agree with my view of hell and that is fine. Your comments are welcomed and will be treated with the upmost respect. I'm certain, many folks including myself would like to r ...[text shortened]... he lake of fire. I would suggest, noting your sources for review. Is it a deal?
Be blessed.
actually my friend it is quite refreshing to be treated with respect, and most admirable, but i fear that i am unworthy of this honor, for i am but an imperfect and thoroughly despicable fellow given to frivolity, vanity and a striving after the wind! never the less i will also try to find the time, if you can pray for me it would help. there are many points in your fine post that i agree with and i think the scriptures can be used to corroborate, but without a correct understanding of the essential words that have been translated hell, pit, grave, gehenna etc etc then all else is mere window dressing, be patient and we shall see what happens.
23 Apr 09
Originally posted by whodeyhey whodey
What about Christ willingly going to the cross?
You know, I find it counterproductive asking the question as to who makes it into the kingdom and who does not. I suppose if you or I were making such decisions are opinions might be worth something, no?
What about Christ willingly going to the cross? Actually, It was Jesus' father in heaven whom willed His son to the cross. Yes. The ultimate sacrifice. The purpose? To save us from an eternal seperation from God.
Addressing your comment with regard to asking the question as to who makes it into the kingdom and who does not. I did not ask if this individual was going to heaven or hell. I am asking the reader if he/she feels suicide is a sin? And does one go to hell? According to the bible, God does support suicide. What then are the consequences for the unbeliever? Again, the bible is clear. Hell is the final destination. These are not my words. Finally, I form my opinion based on the fact that a true believer would never commit suicide. It's not that a believer has never thought about it. Following through is quite different. True Christians turn to God's Word for guidance through difficult times. I ask questions, comment and post. Simple. Oh BTW, I did indicate that only God truly knows man's heart; and only God is final judge.
Peace
24 Apr 09
Originally posted by divegeesterGod's Word (Holy Bible) is my reference.
What are your references for suicide being regarded as murder please?
(1 Corinthians 3:16-17 NIV) [16] Don't you know that you yourselves are God's temple and that God's Spirit lives in you? [17] If anyone destroys God's temple, God will destroy him; for God's temple is sacred, and you are that temple
(Romans 14:79 NIV) [7] For none of us lives to himself alone and none of us dies to himself alone. [8] If we live, we live to the Lord; and if we die, we die to the Lord. So, whether we live or die, we belong to the Lord. [9] For this very reason, Christ died and returned to life so that he might be the Lord of both the dead and the living. This passage shows that our lives are in Christ's hands. We live for Christ and we die for Christ, not for ourselves.
God is the One who is to decide when and how a person should die. To take that power into your own hands, according to the Bible, is blasphemy to God
24 Apr 09
Originally posted by MrMartinI will look at those references when i have a little more time, thanks.
God's Word (Holy Bible) is my reference.
(1 Corinthians 3:16-17 NIV) [16] Don't you know that you yourselves are God's temple and that God's Spirit lives in you? [17] If anyone destroys God's temple, God will destroy him; for God's temple is sacred, and you are that temple
(Romans 14:79 NIV) [7] For none of us lives to himself alone and none of us die ...[text shortened]... die. To take that power into your own hands, according to the Bible, is blasphemy to God
Currently I think I hold the same view as whodey. I feel it is very difficult ground to hold a legalistic postiion on something like this if you believe you are under the New Covenant of Christ's mercy.
I'll get back later. Thanks.
24 Apr 09
Originally posted by divegeesterI feel it is very difficult ground to hold a legalistic postiion on something like this if you believe you are under the New Covenant of Christ's mercy.
I will look at those references when i have a little more time, thanks.
Currently I think I hold the same view as whodey. I feel it is very difficult ground to hold a legalistic postiion on something like this if you believe you are under the New Covenant of Christ's mercy.
I'll get back later. Thanks.
Again, I reference God's Words. Not mine. Therefore, Suicide goes against the commandments of God, it is murder. In fact, the sixth commandment tells us, “You shall not murder” (Exodus 20:13). This command is based on the sanctity of human life. We must remember that man was created in the image of God (Genesis 1:26). We need to understand that the command, “You shall not murder,” has no specific object. It does not say, “You shall not murder someone else,” or “You shall not murder your fellow man.” It simply says, “You shall not murder.” The prohibition thus includes not just the murder of one's fellow man but even the murder of oneself.
You are correct to say we are under a new covenant because of the incredible sacrifice of God's only begotten Son Jesus. However, this does not give believers a license to sin. In fact, as Christians, we must submit or surrender control of our lives completely to God.
Therefore, having a humble and submissive heart is a choice we make. That means as born-again believers we daily make a choice to submit ourselves to God for the work that the Holy Spirit does in us to "conform us to the image of Christ." God will use the situations of our lives to bring us the opportunity to submit to Him (Romans 8:28-29). The believer then accepts His grace and provision to walk in the Spirit and not after the manner of the old nature. That work is accomplished by choosing to apply ourselves to the Word of God and to learning about the provisions that God has made for us in Christ Jesus.
God does not require us to submit because He is a tyrant, but because He is a loving Father and He knows what is best for us. The blessings and peace that we gain from humbly surrendering and submitting ourselves to Him daily are a gift of grace that nothing in this world can compare to.
Check out 'A Godward Life' by John Piper.