20 Sep 12
Originally posted by Taomanyes, these factors are obvious to anyone who doesn't have a spiritual investment in their faith being the one and only "true" path.
He's put a lot of work into it. I was of the opinion that Jesus was a specific historical figure, but he does give enough reasoning and facts to leave one asking what is left after the various streams from other sources of that fomenting time, and other 'Jeshuas' are examined.
Some obscure itinerant preacher perhaps, that coalesced into a local legend fr ...[text shortened]... he end? 40 years (from whatever) is a long time. No verification means, all word of mouth.
20 Sep 12
Originally posted by RJHindswell, with a billion and a half christians, almost a billion muslims and hindus who all form their beliefs based on speculations, it's rather important to be able to form arguments against speculations.
Why should anyone be required to argue against speculations?
but in the case of the information at the linked site, where there are accurate analysis of speculations formed by the christian religion, and he does a very good job of tearing those foundations down, it's rather important for you to be able to form arguments against such things.
but you can't. in your case, you can excuse yourself on the grounds of ignorance. but i doubt you would be able to form any valid arguments even if you were very knowledgeable in christianity.
21 Sep 12
Originally posted by RJHindsThere is one Christian gem that reflects compassion within the myth of the dying godman.
There is nothing that can be done for you, if you wish to continue in this deception. When evil men speak you listen.
'Saved by grace'.
This concept reflects an idea of openness of the 'Transcendent'.The writer of the freethought site would probably disagree with me on an idea of the 'Transcendent', which is even an awkward one for Buddhist philosophy, another form of freethinking, at its best. Words never encapsulate That which is beyond mere human words.
Nevertheless back to 'grace', such a central word in the Pauline Christian schema.
Grace is free and given without expectation of return or payment. It is 'unconditional love', such as painted in the mythic schema of the dying 'Son of God'. Free forgiveness, self-less compassion.
Not only in trying to make myth into historic fact, do you err. The whole Christian Church including Paul, contradicts itself on "grace', by putting a condition on it, a rider. Only the deepest Christians, who go where angels fear to tread, to administer compassion in the name of the their mythic godman- as I keep repeating, a powerful and motive theme - only they, truly with open forgiveness and compassion, without expecting any kneeling, any contract in return convey the deep concepts of grace and compassion.
But others mock the mythic 'Christ' over the centuries with their hatred and arrogance and triumphalism. The trail of blood is long, and it is not the "blood of Christ".
And still you shake your fists, and block your ears.
21 Sep 12
1 edit
Originally posted by JS357Its starts with our funerals.
I am of the opinion that every historical figure of note becomes fictionalized to a greater or lesser extent over time. Who is the real Jesus, or William of Normandy, or Abraham Lincoln? One wonders what such people would think of what they have become in our memories.
It goes the other way too.
Thomas Paine, a founder of the United States of America. was a freethinker and conceptual revolutionary, both in France and on the American continent. Samuel Adams said without the pen of Paine, Washington's sword would have lain unused.
He ever confronted the unenlightened of his day and for it, had 6 people at his funeral. A great hero, despised for being honest, seeking freedom of the mind.
No need to wonder what he would make of some presentations in the U.S currently.
21 Sep 12
Originally posted by VoidSpiritAll I need to know is the truth that leads to eternal life. All false teachings from any religion is unimportant.
well, with a billion and a half christians, almost a billion muslims and hindus who all form their beliefs based on speculations, it's rather important to be able to form arguments against speculations.
but in the case of the information at the linked site, where there are accurate analysis of speculations formed by the christian religion, and he does ...[text shortened]... ould be able to form any valid arguments even if you were very knowledgeable in christianity.
If I know the stove is hot and will burn my finger if I touch it, I would be a fool to touch it. If you believe it is not hot, I am not going to touch it to prove I am right. I will simply tell you the truth and you can touch it to prove me wrong if you wish. No need to argue about it.
21 Sep 12
Originally posted by RJHindsGood luck on such false teachings. Your whole religion is based on pure lies and evil conjecture like 'original sin', the most disgusting idea ever foisted on the world.
All I need to know is the truth that leads to eternal life. All false teachings from any religion is unimportant.
If I know the stove is hot and will burn my finger if I touch it, I would be a fool to touch it. If you believe it is not hot, I am not going to touch it to prove I am right. I will simply tell you the truth and you can touch it to prove me wrong if you wish. No need to argue about it.
21 Sep 12
3 edits
Originally posted by RJHindsRJ, this is immature, excessively fearful and circular thinking.
All I need to know is the truth that leads to eternal life. All false teachings from any religion is unimportant.
If I know the stove is hot and will burn my finger if I touch it, I would be a fool to touch it. If you believe it is not hot, I am not going to touch it to prove I am right. I will simply tell you the truth and you can touch it to prove me wrong if you wish. No need to argue about it.
You will be best to find out if a stove is going to burn by not first touching it, but learning about stoves and heat and observing the signs of it being on.
Clear thinking has never hurt anyone. Ridding your self of an irrational emotional crutch can be painful but eventually liberating and healing.
You are NOT full of 'guilt' and 'sin' and needing to be "saved", RJ. You are a normal human being with your strong and weak points, like us all. Psychology and other rational philosophies can enable your personal growth much better.
The church first sets you up with the guilt story and the desperate need to be 'saved' from judgment and rejection by none other than "GOD" .
And a view of "God", if you will remain a theist, that is very small minded, separative and nasty. It is the cause of painful mockery and rejection by others, who themselves rightly do not appreciate the protrayal of themselves as "low sinners" and of the "devil". There are better and more wholesome theist positions.
And thus you are made fearful, and psychologically dependent on a constructed propaganda. You are the only one who can liberate yourself and your mind. A good place to start is openly accepting your humanity, warts and all.
It is hard to say these things for I know how important your view is to you, but it is false. At sometime, the right time for you, seek to liberate yourself.