08 Dec 05
Originally posted by NemesioAnd yours, as you've already implicitly pointed out many times, is not the God of the Bible. He is the god of the non-literal-book-of-fiction-as-seen-by-Nemesio.
That's right. Your 'god' is a barbarian and sicko and my God embraces
compassion and justice.
Thanks for confirming this!
Nemesio
08 Dec 05
2 edits
Originally posted by joelekNo, I couldn't murder anyone in the eyes of my God and be justified. I would not be following the principles He has given me by which to live.
No, I couldn't murder anyone in the eyes of my God and be justified. I would not be following the principles He has given me by which to live.
There's a big difference between God ending life in judgment and me going around being some religious vigilante. I have no authorization from God to do any such thing.
By the way, there are a lot of Christian ...[text shortened]... . If you don't think God's ways of doing things "cut it," I'd say you have a bigger issue.
There's a big difference between God ending life in judgment and me going around being some religious vigilante. I have no authorization from God to do any such thing.
Apologies for the generalization - You are correct, there are many in India who are not Hindu.... but the question is still there.... You would be fine if God dropped dead every follower of the Hindu religion on the planet, since they are all heathens?
After all, that is what you are saying about the Egyptians that he feld then....
As far as not "cutting it" goes, that's not really my problem. If you don't think God's ways of doing things "cut it," I'd say you have a bigger issue.
As far as my issues with your God and "cutting it" - Not an issue for me, since I dont believe in your God, but you are most welcome to believe as you will.
*Edited for misspellings....*
08 Dec 05
2 edits
Originally posted by joelekIn law, the term "malice" has it relates to murder is intent to kill without justifiable excuse (i.e. self-defense or other defenses). There are other states of mind which lead to actions that cause death (i.e. recklessness or extreme negligence) which can lead to lesser homicide charges like manslaughter or negligent homicide. Thus, God's intent would certainly be to cause the deaths and then you are left with whether any entity can be above the law even if he creates it. In human legal systems, at least those which aren't arbitrary dictatorships, the answer is "no" at least so far as criminal statutes are concerned.
If you have Firefox, type [b]dict murder in the address bar. If you're still running Internet Explorer, go to www.dictionary.com and type murder in the search box. The first definition you'll get is:
The unlawful killing of one human by another, especially with premeditated malice.
God's judgment is neither unlawful nor malicious.[/b]
08 Dec 05
Originally posted by KnightWulfeThat would be a tragedy. I would like to see them come to know Christ. That does not mean God is not justified in doing what you suggest.
but the question is still there.... You would be fine if God dropped dead every follower of the Hindu religion on the planet, since they are all heathens?
For that matter, God would be perfectly justified if He wanted to strike me down this instant.
08 Dec 05
Originally posted by no1marauderGod is not subject to any human law. If He were, He would by definition not be God. So how can His judgments be considered to be unlawful?
In law, the term "malice" has it relates to murder is intent to kill without justifiable excuse (i.e. self-defense or other defenses). There are other states of mind which lead to actions that cause death (i.e. recklessness or extreme negligence) which can lead to lesser homicide charges like manslaughter or negligent homicide. Thus, God's intent woul ...[text shortened]... rbitrary dictatorships, the answer is "no" at least so far as criminal statutes are concerned.
08 Dec 05
1 edit
Originally posted by joelekThat argument is circular (and the second premise is dubious). I was addressing your relying on a dictionary definition; if you simply are going to assert that God can't be morally subject to any standards, do so but don't use legal reasoning where it doesn't belong.
God is not subject to any human law. If He were, He would by definition not be God. So how can His judgments be considered to be [b]unlawful?[/b]
08 Dec 05
Originally posted by no1marauderWell, I'm not so sure it's circular. I think the notion of murder does not apply to the judgment on Egypt because God was not being unlawful in so doing. That's not circular reasoning.
That argument is circular (and the second premise is dubious). I was addressing your relying on a dictionary definition; if you simply are going to assert that God can't be morally subject to any standards, do so but don't use legal reasoning where it doesn't belong.
However, now that you broach it, God is subject to His own moral standards, many of which are revealed in the Bible. And He certainly does not violate those in His actions. His moral standards include justice.
08 Dec 05
Originally posted by joelekThen you don't understand what a circular argument is. Here your conclusion is the same as your first premise. That is a classic circular argument.
Well, I'm not so sure it's circular. I think the notion of murder does not apply to the judgment on Egypt because God was not being unlawful in so doing. That's not circular reasoning.
However, now that you broach it, God is subject to His own moral standards, many of which are revealed in the Bible. And He certainly does not violate those in His actions. His moral standards include justice.
P1 God is not subject to any human law.
P2 If He were, He would by definition not be God.
C So, therefore His judgments are not unlawful
P2 is superfluous.
08 Dec 05
Egypt was a heathen nation, deserving of the judgment of God.
Who at that time was not worthy of God's judgement? Could God have picked anyone less deserving of punishment than a newborn Egyptian baby? Were those firstborn Egyptians that were infants guilty of the crimes of their forefathers? If you must punish a nation is it more just to murder the infants guilty of nothing more than being born in the wrong place or to murder adults who have chosen to behave wickedly?
I can't believe the number of people out there that have a hard time understanding the difference between judgment and murder.
I can't believe the number of people out there that promote slaughtering babies in the name of God.
08 Dec 05
1 edit
Originally posted by joelek…the non-literal-book-of-fiction…
And yours, as you've already implicitly pointed out many times, is not the God of the Bible. He is the god of the non-literal-book-of-fiction-as-seen-by-Nemesio.
There is no fiction in the Bible? There is nothing non-literal in the Bible?
08 Dec 05
Originally posted by NemesioIf God can perform acts which run contrary to His Law, then who is to say
Originally posted by Halitose
[b]1) God created this whole universe; who are you to say what He may or may not do? He is the giver of life and can just as easily take it away.
So the God who gave us moral guidelines is in no way bound to them?
God can lie, steal, cheat, murder, and fornicate with utter impunity (after all,
He made us, right ...[text shortened]... on and love,
then envisioning a God who can and does murder with impunity is absurd.
Nemesio[/b]
that 'His Word' isn't one big lie?
This is actually a great dilemma, Nemesio:
Option 1: God can perform acts which run contrary to His Law, then who is to say that 'His Word' (moral law) isn't one big lie?
Option 2: The Bible is inaccurate in its recording of God, then who is to say that 'His Word' (in this case the Bible) isn't one big lie?
or is there an Option 3 that I didn't notice?