GOD Prover

Originally posted by vishvahetu
to lausey

DNA, RNA, cells, monecules, etc are building blokcs, and are unable to be active , without the spiritual principle being within. (which is the life force) its not material.

one cannot see the spiritual principle or the god force, but we know its there if the cells divide and show symtoms of life.

without the god force (life), within the ...[text shortened]... xsisting already, and since it is the god force, man could never create it.

cheers vishvahetu

"spiritial principle", "life force", "god force" to me all sound like wishy washy words which do not mean anything at all. What are they exactly? Where do you get your information from?

Originally posted by twhitehead
But how do you know its there? What are the 'symptoms of life' that you refer to?
Is there any way of distinguishing chemical reactions that include it, from those that don't?
Are virus' life?

And how do your new comments relate to your earlier claim: "Life is consciousness."
Are you saying that bacteria are conscious?

to twhitehead

symtoms of life are birth death, reproduction, activity, and sometimes in some life forms these things are not visiblable to the eye.

virus,s have life as well as fleas, cockaroaches, apple trees and elephants

god is omniscient,omnipotent and omnipresent, so he must be in the virus, but also in a rock being omnipresent.

consciousness is also a symtom of life, and life is the god force, thats why man cannot create it.

where ever there is life, there is intelligance.

man can get the already existing semen, and the already existing ovem, and mix together in a test tube and produce something. but thats not accepted as pure creation.

cheers vishvahetu

Originally posted by lausey
"spiritial principle", "life force", "god force" to me all sound like wishy washy words which do not mean anything at all. What are they exactly? Where do you get your information from?

to lausey

of course you dont get it, if you havnt spent your whole life searching for knowledge of god and life, like i have, i get my information from a life time of search and study, and of course revelation

if you are a christian, then theres the problem right there, christains no nothing of god and life, because the bible does not teach on these things.

the bible is a very limited and childish doctrine for the meat eaters, and while the bible is accepted as the only word of god, then anyone seeking enlightment using the bible, has no chance at all of knowing anything worthwhile, exept dogma.

if you have a specific question, go for it please cheers vishvahetu

Originally posted by vishvahetu
to lausey

of course you dont get it, if you havnt spent your whole life searching for knowledge of god and life, like i have, i get my information from a life time of search and study, and of course revelation

if you are a christian, then theres the problem right there, christains no nothing of god and life, because the bible does not teach on these ...[text shortened]... le, exept dogma.

if you have a specific question, go for it please cheers vishvahetu

The brain is very good at finding patterns (e.g. faces in clouds), and if you spend your whole life looking for something specific that you want to exist, which hasn't been proven to exist, you end up seeing things that are very likely not really there.

Scientific method is designed to eliminate these kind of problems.

Saying "you dont get it" is an arrogant cop out answer. What you have told me is nothing new and has not caused me to "see the light".

If you are trying to preach something that can only be found by looking for that specific thing, combined with revelation, then what is the point in you preaching it?

Also, you disregard religion, yet what you are preaching IS a religion, albeit your own one.

For your information, I am not christian, I am atheist.

My question to you is what revelation did you experience? Then we can discuss from there.

Originally posted by vishvahetu
to twhitehead

symtoms of life are birth death, reproduction, activity, and sometimes in some life forms these things are not visiblable to the eye.

virus,s have life as well as fleas, cockaroaches, apple trees and elephants

god is omniscient,omnipotent and omnipresent, so he must be in the virus, but also in a rock being omnipresent.

consciou ...[text shortened]... a test tube and produce something. but thats not accepted as pure creation.

cheers vishvahetu

For whatever and for everything you cannot bring up answers during your dualist approach, you claim axiomatically that “god did it”! Obviously you have not the slightest clue about the behavior of an electron since you ignore that the essence you call “consciousness” is not necessary for the atoms in order to combine and therefore to produce the fabric of the Floating World and thus Life.

Furthermore, you believe that the world is constituted by observers which are each one outside of each other. This is caused by your delusion that they exist independently in the SpaceTime and that they interact through forces that they are keeping their essential natures unchangeable -and you backed up this false understanding arguing at another thread that “god” keeps the apple tree an apple tree all the week… And then you conclude that all these observers that they are contained in the observer universe are triggered into being by a single observer that you name “god”, which is in your opinion an omni-omni-omni-superobserver that according to your beliefs is self-enclosed, independent of all other things, both inside and outside of the SpaceTime, and at the same time not self-enclosed and not independent of all other things. Of course you hear the other people telling you (and you see it also on your own) that this string of thoughts that you struggle to preach does not hold water, so you attempt to introduce this theological nonsense of yours as a “paradox”. And you attempt to patronize your interlocutors in order to force them to accept blindly your theology, as you did it right here with lausey, answering him: “Of course you don’t get it, if you haven’t spent your whole life searching for knowledge of god and life, like I have, I get my information from a life time of search and study, and of course revelation”.

An implication of your unexamined assumptions is amongst else your conception of all things as being ultimately unchanging, independent and self-enclosed although you can easily monitor that everything always change. This is the reason why you cannot accept that such self-enclosed and independent entity like your “god” cannot exist but in your own mind and in the mind of the ones from whom you “received revelation”, oh the horror. You need so desperately a “god” in order to get a grip, that finally you invented a “god” out of your own attachment to Desire. And you fail to see that, when you conceive a thing as inherently existent being, this thing has to be unchangeable and retain an immutable inner nature of reality. You fail to see that such an entity, if it was existent, it should have a specific thinghood that requires an inner unchanging essence that makes it what it is. You fail to see that whatever is arising by dependence has no thingness and whatever is devoid of entity does not arise, therefore you fail to see that all things are devoid of entity and thus empty. In addition I deny the possibility that the entity you call “god” really exists and I am sure you cannot prove its existence.

By the way, pretending to be a “teacher” you keep up insulting your brothers forgetting that you are neither better nor worst than them -this is the fruit of your arrogance. Your delusions are an unexamined by you projection of your mind and they are grounded on your ignorance -and your ignorance is triggered by your failure to get to know yourself. It's only you!

I wish you to find the diamond in the lotus
😵

Originally posted by lausey
The brain is very good at finding patterns (e.g. faces in clouds), and if you spend your whole life looking for something specific that you want to exist, which hasn't been proven to exist, you end up seeing things that are very likely not really there.

Scientific method is designed to eliminate these kind of problems.

Saying "you dont get it" is an arr ...[text shortened]...
My question to you is what revelation did you experience? Then we can discuss from there.

to lausey

an athiest is a fool bacause he calls out to god, and god doesnt answer, so he concludes there is no god.

god is the creative principle behind everything that exsists, or how else could the creation be exsplained

my revelation is my revalation, and has taken my whole life to realize, and i cant exsplain it to a person, because its a knowing, that is difficult to describe, anyhow i would not like to discuss myself in this forum.

if i use simple concepts, like spiritual principle and god force and you dont understand, where can i go from there!

what i am saying is not religion, because religion is about beleifs, and i dont believe something, i know something.

a scientist doesnt say i believe if i mix hydrogen and oxygen together i will get water, no, he says i know that if i mix them together i will get water.

on the other hand the christians and muslims believe anything and everything, but know nothing.

cheers vishvahetu

Originally posted by vishvahetu
an athiest is a fool bacause he calls out to god, and god doesnt answer, so he concludes there is no god.

I do not make such conclusions, you are mistaken.

god is the creative principle behind everything that exsists, or how else could the creation be exsplained
Not only is that not an explanation, but rather a cop-out, but there are plenty of other far more reasonable explanations.

Originally posted by black beetle
For whatever and for everything you cannot bring up answers during your dualist approach, you claim axiomatically that “god did it”! Obviously you have not the slightest clue about the behavior of an electron since you ignore that the essence you call “consciousness” is not necessary for the atoms in order to combine and therefore to produce the fabric ...[text shortened]... lure to get to know yourself. It's only you!

I wish you to find the diamond in the lotus
😵

to black beetle

oh, i forgot to mention, not only do the christians and muslims speak goobly gook, but also the buddist.

Why do you assume that i am superior, is that because in your illusional thinking you see the dulistic opposites, superior/inferior.

Of course i see in essence that evrything is one, but there can be no relationship to another thing, if that reality where thrust upon us.

We live in a realative, tempory place, but to exsperiance anything at all, we must work with this, illusionary energy, lets leave nirvana to the after life shall we.

Within atoms there is much activity, and this activity is only possible by the spiritual force within (god)

Hey, when i say god, i dont mean a man like god in the bible, my definition of god is the spiritual power/force, which activates everthing in existance.

cheers vishvahetu ( dont worry, you will get it sooner than latter)

Originally posted by vishvahetu
to lausey

an athiest is a fool bacause he calls out to god, and god doesnt answer, so he concludes there is no god.

god is the creative principle behind everything that exsists, or how else could the creation be exsplained

my revelation is my revalation, and has taken my whole life to realize, and i cant exsplain it to a person, because its a kno ...[text shortened]... e christians and muslims believe anything and everything, but know nothing.

cheers vishvahetu

A Christian or Muslim will say that they know that a God exists. How is that different from you saying that you know that a God exists?

As for your view that an atheist calls out to god. First you have to define what god is. You could define god as an intelligent creator, but an atheist does not agree with intelligent design because of the overwhelming evidence for evolution and natural selection which does not require intervention from an intelligent outside source.

Note that this is different from abiogenesis, which is how it all started, yet there are scientific hypothesis which also explain this process. These do not require an intelligent designer for them to work, therefore can conclude that the probability in ID is small.

Even when they are grey areas in these processes, where there are gaps in scientific knowledge. Why does it require a spiritualist to say, "Well, the scientists do not know this bit, therefore THIS must have happened"? What makes them automatically know the "truth" (aside from some personal subjective experience which we just have to accept)?

Originally posted by lausey
A Christian or Muslim will say that they know that a God exists. How is that different from you saying that you know that a God exists?

As for your view that an atheist calls out to god. First you have to define what god is. You could define god as an intelligent creator, but an atheist does not agree with intelligent design because of the overwhelming evi ...[text shortened]... w the "truth" (aside from some personal subjective experience which we just have to accept)?

to lausey

the muslims and christians say god exists, and then go on and say

*his name is this
*these are all his rules! (and they say he)
*this is what he expects from you!
*he has a place called hell if you dont obey the above rules
*his personal words are in this book
*the only book

you see where iam going with this, its all goobly gook

When i say god exists, i dont add all that nonsense.

natural selection is the athiests idea on how it all came about, but to conclude that there is no intelligence behind it, is unintelligent

ask yourself this, are u part of this natural seection, and have you got intelligence, and when did you get this intelligence.
Was it with you in the beginning or did it come later.

cheers vishvahetu

Originally posted by vishvahetu
to lausey

the muslims and christians say god exists, and then go on and say

*his name is this
*these are all his rules! (and they say he)
*this is what he expects from you!
*he has a place called hell if you dont obey the above rules
*his personal words are in this book
*the only book

you see where iam going with this, its all goobly gook
...[text shortened]... this intelligence.
Was it with you in the beginning or did it come later.

cheers vishvahetu

Intelligence didn't suddenly happen as if you can pinpoint when, it evolved over millions of years. Starting off when simple biological structures replicating. Unstable ones disappear and stable ones carry on.

It comes to a point where they will compete against each other for continued survival. More complicated structures will out live and dominate over the simplier ones. Different mutations will arise because of environmental factors dictating what resources are available, creating other complex forms.

As these biological structures become more advanced they develop processing abilities to dominate (i.e. a simple computer, or the early stages of a brain). These at this basic level are instinctive rules of survival. As the instincts become more complex (e.g. hunter-gatherer and reproductive instincts) you get intelligence as a by product, which is just highly evolved computational ability.

Originally posted by lausey
Intelligence didn't suddenly happen as if you can pinpoint when, it evolved over millions of years. Starting off when simple biological structures replicating. Unstable ones disappear and stable ones carry on.

It comes to a point where they will compete against each other for continued survival. More complicated structures will out live and dominate over t ...[text shortened]... ncts) you get intelligence as a by product, which is just highly evolved computational ability.

to lausey

are you saying that, at one point in existance, there was no inteligance, and then it suddenly appeared!..And what to speak of consciousness, did that also suddenly appear?

cheers vishvahetu

Originally posted by vishvahetu
to black beetle

oh, i forgot to mention, not only do the christians and muslims speak goobly gook, but also the buddist.

Why do you assume that i am superior, is that because in your illusional thinking you see the dulistic opposites, superior/inferior.

Of course i see in essence that evrything is one, but there can be no relationship to anoth ...[text shortened]... existance.

cheers vishvahetu ( dont worry, you will get it sooner than latter)

When you replied to lausey “of course you don’t get it, if you haven’t spent your whole life searching for knowledge of god and life, like I have, I get my information from a life time of search and study, and of course revelation”, you clearly posed yourself on a higher level of understanding since lausey "has not spent his life searching for knowledge of god and life" as you did… This is a product of your arrogance. Swimming in your ocean-deep wisdom you overlook the fact that one can change her/ his personal point of attention thanks to her/ his own evaluation of the mind so efficiently that s/he can overcome her/ his delusional thoughts on the spot.

Then you admit that you see “in essence that everything is one”, but you fail to see the direct relationship of each one observer with each other within the observer universe. You fail to see it because you replaced the evaluation of the mind with your theology.

Then you claim that “within atoms there is much activity, and this activity is only possible by the spiritual force within”, and you name this activity “god”. Once more, you have no clue and this is the reason why you keep up repeating this nonsense. So kindly please describe in detail this specific "much activity" within the atoms, and please explain why do you attribute this "much activity" to the "spiritual force within atoms".
Furthermore, leaving aside the fact that until now you remain unable to back up by means of scientific facts and evidence your unjustified ideas, I remind you that you ignore that your own measurement alone divides up reality and thus it is forming the dreamlike appearances (observers) that are contained in the observer universe, which they are all one in essence due to the fact that this is the nature of all phenomena that can possibly appear in the Floating World. Your own mind is the means that perceives and decodes the world of your everyday experience as different than yourself, and this dualism in relation to your scientifically unjustified predispositions is the agent that keeps you ignorant.

Finally, you keep up repeating:
-- “…when i say god, i dont mean a man like god in the bible, my definition of god is the spiritual power/force, which activates everthing in existence”. Well for one, leaving aside the fact that you appear to know no thing about the Christian “god”, I wish you knew what exactly do you mean because then you could probably be able to describe clearly this view of yours.
For two, you should be able to let me know of a single “thing” whose existence is activated because of the “spiritual power/ force” of the entity (if this “god” that you invented is indeed a conscious entity) you so vaguely name “god”
😵

Originally posted by vishvahetu
to lausey

are you saying that, at one point in existance, there was no inteligance, and then it suddenly appeared!..And what to speak of consciousness, did that also suddenly appear?

cheers vishvahetu

If you read my last post again, I specifically said it didn't suddenly appear. It evolved over millions of years. From very simple processing abilities to very advanced computational power. It doesn't just "switch on", it gradually became more sophisticated.

Consciousness is an term used to describe a combination of mental abilities. Can be described as because of your evolved ability to think, you have the ability of cognition of one's self ("cognito ergo sum" - Descartes). Of course, the debate of consciousness is a huge subject in itself which will require a more thorough analysis than writing it off as just "spiritual phenomena". To answer your question, all the mental phenomena which is described under the umbrella term "consciousness" didn't just suddenly appear, it evolved over a long period of time, like intelligence.

Originally posted by black beetle
When you replied to lausey “of course you don’t get it, if you haven’t spent your whole life searching for knowledge of god and life, like I have, I get my information from a life time of search and study, and of course revelation”, you clearly posed yourself on a higher level of understanding since lausey "has not spent his life searching for knowledge ...[text shortened]... this “god” that you invented is indeed a conscious entity) you so vaguely name “god”
😵

to black beetle

you ask me to name a singe thing that is activated by this god/force, well you for a start.

and as for lausey, he was being smug, by claiming he was not knowing what i was saying, thats why i answered thus.

The atoms are the building blocks of the material energy, and they group together to form objects by their vibrational capacity, and when the atoms vibrate at their particular frequencys the objects remain stable.

so this frequency or vibration or activity, is enabled by the intelligent god/force within.

*I dont want to know anything about the false christian god, thankyou very much!

Its you yourself, who is putting ME on some higher level, but i think not, that i am above anyone, and i think that because i dish it out as it i, then its hard to swallow, but i mean well.

cheers vishvahetu