Grace

Originally posted by Dasa
Originally there was only one Veda, and there was no necessity of reading it. People were so intelligent and had such sharp memories that by once hearing from the lips of the spiritual master they would understand. They would immediately grasp the whole purport. But five thousand years ago Vyasadeva put the Vedas in writing for the people in this age, Kali yuga. H ...[text shortened]... y to understand the explanation of all Vedic knowledge from Srimad-Bhagavatam and the Bhagavad-gita.

Originally posted by Dasa
"Originally there was only one Veda..."

A man or woman? The author's age? Written in what year or time period?

Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
Originally posted by googlefudge
"What that requires however is evidence sufficient to do so..."

Please describe and/or define the nature of the evidence you would require.

Reset for googlefudge.

Originally posted by sonhouse
That being said, why is it alright for you to want to kill Muslims? Is that spiritual?

Reset for Dasa.

Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
Originally posted by Dasa
"Originally there was only one Veda..."

A man or woman? The author's age? Written in what year or time period?

Vedic knowledge is eternal.

The Vedas are delivered to mankind in this Yuga (Kali Yuga) by Srila Vyasadeva about 5000 yrs ago and he is an incarnation of the Lord........and is called Veda Vyasa.

Veda Vyasa is not an ordinary man but an incarnation of God.

Veda Vyasa is eternal but in this incarnation he was observed as a mature aged male.

He is considered as a part-incarnation of Lord Vishnu. He came to the earth in Dwapar-Yuga to put all the Vedic knowledge in this universe in the form of written words and make it available to everyone. Before Ved Vyasa the Vedic knowledge only existed in the form of spoken words. He was the grandfather to Pandavas and Kauravas. He is called Ved Vyasa because he had split the original version of Vedas into four parts; Ved Vyasa literally means ‘the splitter of Vedas’. It was because Ved Vyasa had split the Vedas that it became easy for people to understand it. This is how the divine knowledge was made available to everyone.

The following list is how Vedic knowledge came to this earth through (disciplic succession) starting with the Lord himself Sri Bhagavan Krsna and then being passed down to this present age through this transcendental chain of Spiritual Masters.

Krsna.................(The supreme Lord.)
Brahma.
Narada
Vyasa
Madhva
Padmanabha
Nrhari
Madhava
Aksobhya
Jaya Tirtha
Jnanasindhu
Dayanidhi
Vidyanidhi
Rajendra
Jayadharma
Purusottama
Brahmanya Tirtha
Vyasa Tirtha
Laksmipati
Madhavendra Puri
Isvara Puri, (Nityananda, Advaita)
Lord Caitanya
Rupa, (Svarupa, Sanatana)
Raghunatha, Jiva
Krsnadasa
Narottama
Visvanatha
(Baladeva) Jagannatha
Bhaktivinoda
Gaurakisora
Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati
Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada
Bhaktivedanta Book Trust. HDG A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Srila Prabhupada.


The name of our sampradaya -- Brahma-Madhva-Gaudiya-sampradaya - suggests three distinct phases, or links in the disciplic chain. The disciplic succession begins with Lord Brahma, who first spoke the absolute truth into the cosmic creation after receiving it in his heart directly from Lord Krsna. Lord Brahma was the spiritual master of Narada Muni, and Narada passed the teachings on to Vyasadev.

The second phase is marked after Vyasadev with Sripada Madhvacarya, who took his birth at Udupi somewhere between the years of A.D. 1119 and A.D. 1239. While the chronological gap between the manifestations of Sri Vyasadev and Madhvacarya is long, as Srila Prabhupada wrote in a letter to Dayananda (12-04-68): "Regarding parampara system, there is nothing to wonder for big gaps. We have to pick up the prominent acarya and follow from him."

Sri Madhvacarya claimed to be a direct disciple of Vyasa, from whom he directly received the Vedanta. Their relationship is not stated to be one of initiation, and in fact, Madhva is described as having taking initiation from the Sankara line. From his base in Udipi, he went on to establish what continues today as a strict system of succession.

The third phase of the succession is marked by the appearance of Lord Caitanya in Gauda-desa, Bengal. Lord Caitanya took birth in Navadvipa, Bengal in the year A.D. 1407. Lord Caitanya did not formally initiate anyone, and it is stated by Sanatana Goswami that, as an incarnation, he would not personally do so.

Prior to Lord Caitanya's appearance Madhavendra Puri appeared, and he initiated several of Caitanya's associates, including Sri Advaita and Nityananda prabhu. Madhavendra Puri also initiated Lord Caitanya's own guru, Isvara Puri. As stated in Caitanya-caritamrta, Madyam lila 4:197, Sri Madhavendra Puri introduced the conception of conjugal love for the first time in the Madhvacarya-sampradaya, and this conclusion was later revealed by Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu.

Following Lord Caitanya, the modern age of the Gaudiya Sampradaya was marked by the appearance of Srila Bhaktivinode Thakur, who took birth in A.D. 1838 in the Nadia District of West Bengal. Following Srila Bhaktivinode in the disciplic succession is his son, Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati, who appeared in 1874 in Puri. Srila Bhaktisiddhanta took initiation from Gaurakisora das Babaji. Srila Bhaktisiddhanta became the spiritual master of A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada, the most recent Sampradaya Acarya, who appeared in 1896 in Calcutta.

Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
Originally posted by Dasa
"I have said in my comments previously that Grace is the common sense to embrace true religion and live a simple and saintly life whilst following the path of true spirituality.

The person who does this has received the Grace of God to see things as they truly are."
___________________________

On what authority do you base these two statements?

On the authority of common sense and honesty.........of the Vedas.

You have to realize that to be an atheist is to immediately be dishonest...

That,s because to be able to explain the existence of this universe and all the conscious living being within it.............an atheist must be dishonest with his absurd beliefs in a unintelligent random cause.

That would be just plain stupid............and dishonest

Originally posted by sonhouse
That being said, why is it alright for you to want to kill Muslims? Is that spiritual?

You must understand the true history of Islam.

If you did .......you would realize that Islam has spread throughout this world by the systematic murder and rape and humiliation and plundering and pillaging of its people, and the forced conversion to Islam

I shall say it again...............(the FORCED CONVERSION TO ISLAM.) with the threat of death if resistance is met.

It is going on even today as we speak.

I have (and that's me) and not the Vedas.................have said that all the murderers and rapists and terrorist must be executed (killed).

And that's because there is no place in this world for them..............and Vedic justice supports capital punishment for these types of sadistic persons.

How are the governments of the world going to jail for life, millions and millions of this type of villain ...........(they cannot)

Originally posted by Dasa
I have (and that's me) and not the Vedas.................have said that all the murderers and rapists and terrorist must be executed (killed).

Actually, what you advocated was a systematic genocide against all Muslim men. I don't think anyone disputes the bringing to justice of murderers, rapists and terrorists. But to propose murdering hundreds and hundreds of millions of innocent people? Do you claim to have a religion-based justification for this?

Originally posted by Dasa
On the authority of common sense and honesty.........of the Vedas.

You have to realize that to be an atheist is to immediately be dishonest...

That,s because to be able to explain the existence of this universe and all the conscious living being within it.............an atheist must be dishonest with his absurd beliefs in a unintelligent random cause.

That would be just plain stupid............and dishonest

As an atheist i greatly resent being labelled as dishonest and stupid. Who are you to make such a judgement?

If someone 'genuinely' believes something based on 'intelligent study and observation' how could they possibly be guilty of dishonesty and stupidity?

Bottom line, you just take the child like argument that anybody who doesn't agree with you must therefore be lying and an idiot. The idea that somebody could have honestly and intellectually arrived at a different conclusion is something your narrow minded brain just can't handle.

Originally posted by FMF
Actually, what you advocated was a systematic genocide against all Muslim men. I don't think anyone disputes the bringing to justice of murderers, rapists and terrorists. But to propose murdering hundreds and hundreds of millions of innocent people? Do you claim to have a religion-based justification for this?

Not you again.

You have translated my words again to meet your desires.

You would have to be the most dishonest person in this forum because you play mind games with words.

Previously I said ALL MUSLIMS who support the murderers and rapists and child abusers are also guilty of those offenses and should also be executed along with the perpetrators.

That,s what I said...............(and not the Vedas)

And I do not take it back.

You have always supported persons who are supporters of terrorism.

If you have a disagreement then it is with me and not the Vedas.

Open your eyes...............There are millions of people who support terrorism, just look at the Palestinians who have elected a terrorist Government and almost every single Muslim on earth wants death to the Jews.

Death to every Jew is part of the Muslim Government Hamas,s constitution,

Open your eyes and stop being dishonest with your comments......you fool.

Originally posted by Ghost of a Duke
As an atheist i greatly resent being labelled as dishonest and stupid. Who are you to make such a judgement?

If someone 'genuinely' believes something based on 'intelligent study and observation' how could they possibly be guilty of dishonesty and stupidity?

Bottom line, you just take the child like argument that anybody who doesn't agree with ...[text shortened]... ually arrived at a different conclusion is something your narrow minded brain just can't handle.

You have not intelligently observed anything that supports atheism.

Atheist are so dishonest .....................teaching little children that they are random accidents and that their great great grand fathers are apes.

Silly foolish and dishonest atheists.....................but mainly dishonest for not researching the truth of life and believing every word from their science teacher at school.

I am the person who didn't cut the frog up...................and asked all the students to do the same.

Originally posted by Dasa
You have not intelligently observed anything that supports atheism.

Atheist are so dishonest .....................teaching little children that they are random accidents and that their great great grand fathers are apes.

Silly foolish and dishonest atheists.....................but mainly dishonest for not researching the truth of life and believing every ...[text shortened]... e person who didn't cut the frog up...................and asked all the students to do the same.

I am also the person who didn't cut up the frog.
I am also the person who doesn't eat meat.

Again i repeat, how is it dishonest to say something that one genuinely believes?!? Do you not understand the question?

And anyone who's great great grand father was an ape comes from a very peculiar family.

Originally posted by Dasa
You have always supported persons who are supporters of terrorism.

And yet, although I have posted here at RHP more than 35,000 times, you cannot cite even 1 post where I offered support of any kind whatsoever for Islamic terrorism.

Originally posted by Dasa
Not you again.

You have translated my words again to meet your desires.

You would have to be the most dishonest person in this forum because you play mind games with words.

Previously I said ALL MUSLIMS who support the murderers and rapists and child abusers are also guilty of those offenses and should also be executed along with the perpetrators.

That,s what I said...............(and not the Vedas)

What you said was:

"There can be no peace in this world until false religion is eradicated and true religion established. The most vile excuse for a religion is Islam and it must be banned. [...] The Governments of the world should be pre-emptive and abolish Islam from the face of the earth. To do this ..........force must be used and termination of all Muslims would be the rule. Muslims converting to other religions at the eleventh hour would not be accepted. Muslim children however would be sparred because you can teach them truth and how to be civilized. [...] [Women] would be allowed to prove themselves. [...] Genocide is only applicable when the persons are innocent. Islam is not innocent and is not worthy to exist among civilized people. When their behaviour is lower than the animals they must be dealt with."

That's verbatim.

Originally posted by Dasa
Previously I said ALL MUSLIMS who support the murderers and rapists and child abusers are also guilty of those offenses and should also be executed along with the perpetrators.

I don't think anyone disputes the bringing to justice of murderers, rapists and terrorists. Unlike you, I don't think what religion the murderers, rapists and terrorists profess to follow makes any difference. Do you think non-Muslim murderers, rapists and terrorists should not be punished for their crimes?

Originally posted by Dasa
Not you again.

You have translated my words again to meet your desires.

You would have to be the most dishonest person in this forum because you play mind games with words.

Previously I said ALL MUSLIMS who support the murderers and rapists and child abusers are also guilty of those offenses and should also be executed along with the perpetrators.

...[text shortened]... mas,s constitution,

Open your eyes and stop being dishonest with your comments......you fool.

You're a disgraceful liar.

Want you fail to recognise in your dim witted brain of yours, is that lots of us saw your post about the killing of all Muslim men and women. Trying to weasel your way out of it and pretend you said something different is deplorable. The sad irony of it all is that you are no different from the fanatical Muslims you so evidently despise, killing is your only answer.