Happiness for its own sake

Originally posted by @js357
It is said by some that personal happiness is the one thing we choose or prefer for its own sake and not as a means to another end.

Among alternatives we might consider truth, beauty, satori (or enlightenment), salvation, faith, freedom, etc.

Some say that pursuing happiness for itself doesn’t work out, it is better to have a more altruistic aim than pe ...[text shortened]... es realists say the pursuit of happiness underlies all these supposed alternatives.

Thoughts?

Proverbs 3:13-19
Happy is the man who finds wisdom, And the man who gains understanding;
For her proceeds are better than the profits of silver, And her gain than fine gold.
She is more precious than rubies, And all the things you may desire cannot compare with her.
Length of days is in her right hand, In her left hand riches and honor.
Her ways are ways of pleasantness, And all her paths are peace.
She is a tree of life to those who take hold of her, And happy are all who retain her.
The LORD by wisdom founded the earth; By understanding He established the heavens;

Originally posted by @js357
That’s not biblical, is it? Do you believe it? I meant what I said. Trying to get the point, that’s me. It seems to me your God would cut the well-intended a little slack, since he knows how things will go.

I would say that would depend on what the topic and what was being attempted. Even with just people attempting with good intentions can blow up in your face.

Originally posted by @josephw
Proverbs 3:13-19
Happy is the man who finds wisdom, And the man who gains understanding;
For her proceeds are better than the profits of silver, And her gain than fine gold.
She is more precious than rubies, And all the things you may desire cannot compare with her.
Length of days is in her right hand, In her left hand riches and honor.
Her ways are wa ...[text shortened]... retain her.
The LORD by wisdom founded the earth; By understanding He established the heavens;

That’s a pretty strong vote for wisdom being the proper WAY to happiness, yet happiness is there as the stated payoff.

Originally posted by @js357
It is said by some that personal happiness is the one thing we choose or prefer for its own sake and not as a means to another end.

Among alternatives we might consider truth, beauty, satori (or enlightenment), salvation, faith, freedom, etc.

Some say that pursuing happiness for itself doesn’t work out, it is better to have a more altruistic aim than pe ...[text shortened]... es realists say the pursuit of happiness underlies all these supposed alternatives.

Thoughts?

Yep, if you put too much stake into others opinions , into 2nd and 3rd hand chat about others or just reclusing from others because you dont trust them for whatever reason then the paranoia and second guessing follows.
Certainty in all of one's activities , no matter the opposition, leads to personal fulfilment and joy that has no downside!!

Originally posted by @fmf
Would you say that love is something that is a means to an end as opposed to something entered into for its own sake?

Entered for it's own sake, for the mere satisfaction of coupling with who you believe to be the right partner can have devastating effects.

indeed it is hard to be free and in a monogamous r'ship, but some manage it.

Originally posted by @kellyjay
I prefer Godliness with contentment is great gain. Harder to get if always being happy is your goal.

Surely you can admit that the human race could do with a bit more happiness...
And I've yet to come across anyone who lives their life for "always being happy."

The wise understand the dynamics of true happiness. There is hard work to be done on all levels before relief comes.

Originally posted by @karoly-aczel
Entered for it's own sake, for the mere satisfaction of coupling with who you believe to be the right partner can have devastating effects.

indeed it is hard to be free and in a monogamous r'ship, but some manage it.

Actually, I wasn't thinking only of love in the "coupling" sense.

Originally posted by @fmf
Actually, I wasn't thinking only of love in the "coupling" sense.

Yeah ... it's a big topic. I was just shooting off a couple of points.
The J-man reflected that some thought it required here. Thanks for steering me in the right direction.

Originally posted by @karoly-aczel
Yeah ... it's a big topic. I was just shooting off a couple of points.
The J-man reflected that some thought it required here. Thanks for steering me in the right direction.

I believe that my purposes in life are to learn, to explore, to experience, and to love. All in all, to avail myself of the amazing - albeit finite - opportunity that life offers. "Happiness" is obtained to varying degrees from the pursuit of those purposes and from affecting those I love or care about in a positive way.

Originally posted by @fmf
I believe that my purposes in life are to learn, to explore, to experience, and to love. All in all, to avail myself of the amazing - albeit finite - opportunity that life offers. "Happiness" is obtained to varying degrees from the pursuit of those purposes and from affecting those I love or care about in a positive way.

Those seem like existential choices you have made and are making true when engaged in them. The doing of them makes the belief true. Maybe this spans the gap between subjective and objective truth?

Originally posted by @karoly-aczel
Surely you can admit that the human race could do with a bit more happiness...
And I've yet to come across anyone who lives their life for "always being happy."

The wise understand the dynamics of true happiness. There is hard work to be done on all levels before relief comes.

Yes, I agree.

I just think that the happiness of man should be a byproduct not a prime product of life. It makes it easier to co-exist with each other.

Originally posted by @js357
Those seem like existential choices you have made and are making true when engaged in them. The doing of them makes the belief true. Maybe this spans the gap between subjective and objective truth?

Learning, exploring, experiencing, and loving have certainly brought me into contact with objective truths, but it's the subjective truths generated by my interaction with those objective truths that has authored my personhood's unique and defining narrative, as well as the happiness contained in its pages.

Originally posted by @kellyjay
Yes, I agree.

I just think that the happiness of man should be a byproduct not a prime product of life. It makes it easier to co-exist with each other.

Yes I hear ya. I dont think happy people pursue happiness.

How would one pursue that anyway? Narcissism? Headonism? I doubt it . Sustained relief from pain onlycomes to those that understand their place in the world and the r'ships with others. Even then it may not be too jovial.

Originally posted by @karoly-aczel
Yes I hear ya. I dont think happy people pursue happiness.

How would one pursue that anyway? Narcissism? Headonism? I doubt it . Sustained relief from pain onlycomes to those that understand their place in the world and the r'ships with others. Even then it may not be too jovial.

Completely agree

Originally posted by @apathist
I've often wondered, not talking about you js of course, but why exactly am I supposed to sacrifice myself for others?

I admit I like having the option.

Because, under specific causes and conditions, otherness is non-existent😵