"Having the indwelt Holy Spirit"

Originally posted by @thinkofone
The lack of evidence of "the indwelt Holy Spirit" in many Christians isn't surprising given the gospel preached by Jesus during His ministry.

John 14
15“If you love me, keep my commands. And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another advocate to help you and be with you forever— the Spirit of truth...
21Whoever has my commands and keeps t ...[text shortened]... l life. This helps explain the lack of evidence of "the indwelt Holy Spirit" in many Christians.

I’ll ask some of the same questions I’ve asked before that were not answered.

If someone accepts Christ at the age of 20 (i.e. becomes a Christian) and dies at the age of 80, are you suggesting this person did not commit a single sin for 60 years, bearing in mind that coveting and lying are sins and Jesus said even being angry with someone or looking on a woman with lust in your heart was a sin.

If you do not think a Christian can sin and is justified (made righteous) by good works, what was the point of Christ’s sacrifice on the cross? What is the New Covenant if Christians are still made righteous by the law?

How many good works must one do to be saved?

Originally posted by @fmf
Is there any evidence of Christians "having the indwelt Holy Spirit" on this forum, or is there simply no evidence of it?

Sure. Speaking for only myself, I believe I’ve exhibited longsuffering, faith and temperance. Other posters, I can think of three off the top of my head, have exhibited fruits of the Spirit to a greater degree than I have.

Originally posted by @romans1009
Sure. Speaking for only myself, I believe I’ve exhibited longsuffering, faith and temperance. Other posters, I can think of three off the top of my head, have exhibited fruits of the Spirit to a greater degree than I have.

OK, thanks.

Originally posted by @romans1009
I’ll ask some of the same questions I’ve asked before that were not answered.

If someone accepts Christ at the age of 20 (i.e. becomes a Christian) and dies at the age of 80, are you suggesting this person did not commit a single sin for 60 years, bearing in mind that coveting and lying are sins and Jesus said even being angry with someone or looking ...[text shortened]... Christians are still made righteous by the law?

How many good works must one do to be saved?

Not surprisingly, this post is being ignored by the salvation-by-works and Christians-can-never-sin crowd.

Then, a day or two later, they’ll post the same false doctrines, I’ll respond with these same questions and maybe a few others, they’ll again ignore the questions and we’ll spin around on the merry-go-round ‘til at least the spring and probably longer.

Originally posted by @fmf
Is there any evidence of Christians "having the indwelt Holy Spirit" on this forum, or is there simply no evidence of it?

I would say it is hard to tell in real life unless you spend some time with someone on a personal level, never mind on this forum.

FMF: Is there any evidence of Christians "having the indwelt Holy Spirit" on this forum, or is there simply no evidence of it?

Originally posted by @dj2becker
I would say it is hard to tell in real life unless you spend some time with someone on a personal level, never mind on this forum.

Does "hard to tell" mean you think there is some evidence or you think there isn't any?

Originally posted by @fmf
Does "hard to tell" mean you think there is some evidence or you think there isn't any?

I think there is some but it could be hard to prove this to an agnostic atheist.

Originally posted by @fmf
When believers claim to "have the indwelt Holy Spirit", what should non-believers be able to witness in the words and deeds of such people ~ here in this online environment ~ that might confirm or illustrate that their claims are true?

It is a good question.

I only emphasize that I do not make such a claim... I think that there is a certain amount of panentheism within the Holy Spirit concept, and that all I can say as a Christian is that chrismated Orthodox Christians have an indelible mark allowing them to function as a sort of lay priest within the divine liturgy. It is also possible for lay persons to provide baptisms and even function in some other ways within religious rites.

But there is nothing like some miracle of tongues or healing or vision or ceaseless prayer.

Originally posted by @philokalia
It is a good question.

I only emphasize that I do not make such a claim... I think that there is a certain amount of panentheism within the Holy Spirit concept, and that all I can say as a Christian is that chrismated Orthodox Christians have an indelible mark allowing them to function as a sort of lay priest within the divine liturgy. It is also poss ...[text shortened]...

But there is nothing like some miracle of tongues or healing or vision or ceaseless prayer.

Do you find yourself able to discern between fellow Christian posters here who might "have the indwelt Holy Spirit" and those who don't appear to (according to their own definition of it)?

Originally posted by @fmf
Do you find yourself able to discern between fellow Christian posters here who might "have the indwelt Holy Spirit" and those who don't appear to (according to their own definition of it)?

Haha, nice try.

First of all, I would never claim to be able to see a thing liek that.

Second of all, no, I'd never sit here and sow discord and discontent between Christians or hurt people by either attacking their character or building up their ego.

Originally posted by @philokalia
Haha, nice try.

First of all, I would never claim to be able to see a thing liek that.

Second of all, no, I'd never sit here and sow discord and discontent between Christians or hurt people by either attacking their character or building up their ego.

Second of all, no, I'd never sit here and sow discord and discontent between Christians or hurt people by either attacking their character or building up their ego.

Seems you saw through the motive of the question. 😏

Originally posted by @philokalia
Second of all, no, I'd never sit here and sow discord and discontent between Christians or hurt people by either attacking their character or building up their ego.

Are you sure? You don't attack people's character?

Originally posted by @fmf
Are you sure? You don't attack people's character?

Is this another trap?

Originally posted by @fmf
Are you sure? You don't attack people's character?

Oh I am sure that you can find instances of me behaving poorly. I am a human. But I certainly regret it.

I do recollect I implied that you were not courageous in another thread. I am sorry if that hurt you or made you stumble.

It would be very unbecoming, though, to try to lord this over someone's head, I think, and that would not be positive for either of us. I certainly hope you do not cling to these incidents or take joy in trying to count the missteps of your brother. That;'s just not a good character trait, you know, and it would make you sound like you don't quite have the plot.

Originally posted by @philokalia
I do recollect I implied that you were not courageous in another thread. I am sorry if that hurt you or made you stumble.

Not courageous. Yes. There was also the supposed lack of integrity, honesty, boldness, honour, bravery, worth, inventiveness, creativity, smartness, praiseworthiness.

That's quite a long list for someone who claims he'd never attack anyone's character.

No wonder you reduced it to just the one word/character flaw for your retelling of it. And then you simply ran away from debate.

You're a curious fellow who, I think, is not capable of actually hurting people with his posts. Don't worry about that aspect of it. You might do well, however, to ponder the disconnect I am drawing your attention to.