24 Apr 11
Originally posted by twhiteheadThe "lie" is that Jesus didn't rise from the dead.
How many times must you bring up that lie? (I call it a lie, not an error on your part because I am fairly sure I have discussed this with you in the past).
You lie to yourself because you don't know the truth. When you deny the resurrection, without knowing whether it's true or not, you do so as an act of faith.
24 Apr 11
Originally posted by RJHindsSo it remains a lie that 'Over 500 witnesses during that time say otherwise'. We don't have even one single direct witness statement.
The Holy Bible does report some of the things people said and did when they saw
the risen Christ however, but not all those five hundred people.
24 Apr 11
Originally posted by whodeyHave you seen his body? Over 500 witnesses during that time say otherwise.
Have you seen his body? Over 500 witnesses during that time say otherwise.
I think most historians would agree with the following: 1. Jesus lived 2. He was crucified and buried in a tomb. 3. He was discovered missing. After all, both Jewish and Roman traditions admit to an empty tomb. These resources range from Josephus to a compilation of 5th centur ...[text shortened]... a we have witnesses before, during, and after the coming of one Jesus Chrsit!! 😀
Damn I wish I had the holy texts to hand but I lent them out; anyhow I can't give you a precise figure but back when middle earth existed (before Gandalf magicked it away) there were a lot more than 500 witnesses on the Pelennor fields to witness Éowyn kill the Witch-king of Angmar, Lord of the Nazgûl!
and the holy LoTR says nothing about Jesus!
Why don't you talk about this event with as much enthusiasm? You, your family, and your friends, their friends, and their dogs owe their entire existence to her bravery that day! 😕
24 Apr 11
Originally posted by josephwIn what form?
Jesus lives!
Is he shopping in Sainsbury's, a figment of your imagination, a heart tickler, feet tickler, or what?
How does somebody who died 2,000 years ago, assuming he ever lived in the first place, live today?
Is he spotted like Elvis is, sometimes on the moon, or in Asda?
-m.
24 Apr 11
1 edit
Originally posted by twhiteheadhttp://www.ccel.org/ccel/schaff/anf01.viii.iv.cviii.html
Again, a lie.
Please quote a hostile source from the time that admits to an empty tomb.
Remember that a source stating what Christians believe does not count.
There exits accounts confirming that the stolen body hypothesis existed among Jews of the era. The Toledoth Yeshu, a compilation of early Jewish writing, alludes to stolen body hypothesis, as does a record of a second century debate between Christians and a Jew, Justin Martyr's Dialogue with Trypho.
"His disciples stole him by night from the tomb, where he was laid when unfastened from the cross, and now decieve men by asserting that he has arisen from the dead and ascended to heaven."
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Make no mistake, it would have behooved the Jews to produce the body after the supposide resurrection to disprove the supposide heritics. So they either did not know where he was buried, or the body disappeared. What say you? Which theory do you favor?
Of course, to simply ignore the man who claimed he would rise again on the third day after he tormented them for years with subsequent plots to kill him seem to me to be highly unlikely.
24 Apr 11
Originally posted by whodeyAs I said, all you have is reports of what the early Christians believed, and in this case, what other people believed about the early Christians.
"His disciples stole him by night from the tomb, where he was laid when unfastened from the cross, and now decieve men by asserting that he has arisen from the dead and ascended to heaven."
In other words you are dishonestly trying to claim this source supports your claim when in reality it only supports the claim that early Christians believed in an empty tomb (which is not disputed by me, and probably not by anyone).
Make no mistake, it would have behooved the Jews to produce the body after the supposide resurrection to disprove the supposide heritics.
How long after the crucifixion supposedly took place did 'heretics' surface and how much trouble did they cause Jews?
So they either did not know where he was buried, or the body disappeared. What say you? Which theory do you favor?
I favor the theory that the whole story was made up at a later date.
Of course, to simply ignore the man who claimed he would rise again on the third day after he tormented them for years with subsequent plots to kill him seem to me to be highly unlikely.
He was dead. Of course they ignored him. I am not convinced that he told anyone other than his closest followers that he would 'rise again on the third day'. I am not even sure if he told his followers that in so many words. Can you give me the verse?
24 Apr 11
1 edit
Originally posted by AgergHow many of the witnesses of the Pelennor fields gave their lives for their testimony? As for the witnesses of the resurrection of Christ, we know of 12 ready and willing to die for thier testimony.
[b]Have you seen his body? Over 500 witnesses during that time say otherwise.
Damn I wish I had the holy texts to hand but I lent them out; anyhow I can't give you a precise figure but back when middle earth existed (before Gandalf magicked it away) there were a lot more than 500 witnesses on the Pelennor fields to witness Éowyn kill the Witch-king of An friends, their friends, and their dogs owe their entire existence to her bravery that day! 😕[/b]
Peter was crucified by Nero upside down on Vatican hill. He was then later rumored to have been buried on Vatican hill. You remeber Peter don't you? He as the one Christ said would be the one he would build his church upon.....literally. St Andrew went to Scythia and to Byzantium where he founded churches. Then he went to Greece and finally to Patrae, a city of Achaia, where he was later martyred. He was scourged and then tied to a cross for two days where he died in 69 AD. St James was executed in Jerusalem during the reign of Herald Agrippa 1 around 44 AD. He was the first of the apostles to suffer martyrdom. Philip went to Heierapolis where he was marytred by being peirced throught the hip and hung upside down on a cross. Bartholomew established the Armenian Church. He was martyred in Albania. Apparently, he was placed in a sack and cast off into the sea. (At least this time they were a little original) Shall I go on? I think you get the picture. Of all 12 apostles, it appears St. John was the only one not marytred, however, he was later exiled to Patmos for his faith.
24 Apr 11
Originally posted by twhiteheadIn Matthew 27 we see that gaurds were placed at the tomb for this very reason. Of course, you could care less what the scriptures say, so what do you care?
As I said, all you have is reports of what the early Christians believed, and in this case, what other people believed about the early Christians.
In other words you are dishonestly trying to claim this source supports your claim when in reality it only supports the claim that early Christians believed in an empty tomb (which is not disputed by me, and p ...[text shortened]... am not even sure if he told his followers that in so many words. Can you give me the verse?