Spirituality
02 Sep 05
08 Sep 05
1 edit
Originally posted by frogstomp
Thats a recurring number in the OT. vistesd has a decent theory on it.
Originally posted by Bosse de Nage
Pssst, vistesd--I know your monkey mind is active at the moment--remind of number 42, with special reference to Elisha & his bears?
Originally posted by genius
and what is your point with the 42? why does it make you suspicious?
Originally posted by Bosse de Nage
The number 42 is a loaded number. I'm waiting for visestd to explain it (he has a good theory) but it basically has to do with numerology. One of the reasons why so much of the OT is bunk if taken literally.
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OK, my interest is piqued. Please, vistesd, do tell. I'd like to know what the significance of 30 + 12 might be. Please don't say "Deep Thought".
08 Sep 05
Originally posted by David CMy researches reveal that the appearance of the number 42 in this context clearly indicates that Elisha was Japanese:
OK, my interest is piqued. Please, vistesd, do tell. I'd like to know what the significance of 30 + 12 might be. Please don't say "Deep Thought".
In Japanese, 4 (shi) and 2 (ni) are together pronounced like "going to death". Because of that, in Japan, 42 is considered as a disastrous number.
08 Sep 05
1 edit
Originally posted by Bosse de Nage🙄
My researches reveal that the appearance of the number 42 in this context clearly indicates that Elisha was Japanese:
In Japanese, 4 (shi) and 2 (ni) are together pronounced like "going to death". Because of that, in Japan, 42 is considered as a disastrous number.
08 Sep 05
Originally posted by Bosse de NageLOL. Gets a rec.
My researches reveal that the appearance of the number 42 in this context clearly indicates that Elisha was Japanese:
In Japanese, 4 (shi) and 2 (ni) are together pronounced like "going to death". Because of that, in Japan, 42 is considered as a disastrous number.
08 Sep 05
Originally posted by geniusNeither.
is that sarcasm, or are you serious?
In the meantime, while we're waiting for Godot, I mean visistesd, I am permitted to reveal that in Lewis Carroll's book The Hunting of the Snark, the baker left 42 pieces of luggage on the pier. Undoubtedly they contained the heads of Elisha's 42 boys.
15 Sep 05
Originally posted by Bosse de Nagewait-i just remebered that it was you that brought up this notion of 42 and the bible in the old testament anyway, so why are we waiting for someone who hasn't actually said anything instead of waiting for the person that first proposed it (but hasn't followed it up...)?
With regard to the number 42, this one is the real clincher:
The number of U.S. gallons of oil contained in one barrel of oil.
The prophecy is there for all those who have ears to see...
15 Sep 05
Originally posted by geniusvistesd is well worth the wait.
wait-i just remebered that it was you that brought up this notion of 42 and the bible in the old testament anyway, so why are we waiting for someone who hasn't actually said anything instead of waiting for the person that first proposed it (but hasn't followed it up...)?
15 Sep 05
Originally posted by geniusHello, genius. Frogstomp's right....
wait-i just remebered that it was you that brought up this notion of 42 and the bible in the old testament anyway, so why are we waiting for someone who hasn't actually said anything instead of waiting for the person that first proposed it (but hasn't followed it up...)?
15 Sep 05
1 edit
Originally posted by geniusJust now... Ignore their idle flattery, however. 😳
well, has anyone told him about this thread?...
Second Kings: 23 He went up from there to Bethel; and while he was going up on the way, some small boys came out of the city and jeered at him, saying, "Go away, baldhead! Go away, baldhead!"
24 When he turned around and saw them, he cursed them in the name of the LORD. Then two she-bears came out of the woods and mauled forty-two of the boys.
In Hebrew, each letter also stands for a number (there are no numerals in Biblical Hebrew). Now, the word for bear is spelled dalet bet (DB, pronounced dob; there were no real vowels in Hebrew either: sometimes a consonant could also have a vowel sound, and vowel markings were added later). Dalet is the fourth letter of the Hebrew alphabet, bet is the second letter: 4 and 2.
The words used to identify the number of children in the story are arba’im v’sheni. arba’im is the plural form of arba, which means four-fold, quadruple, a four-count; hence, arba’im was used for the word “forty.” v’sheni means “and a double.”
A Jewish reader schooled in Hebrew would recognize the complex pun on the word dob, meaning bear, but also the numerals 4 and 2. Traditional midrashic exegesis gets a lot of mileage out of such word-plays.
Since Hebrew is based on a consonantal root system (usually three, but in this case two), words with the same consonantal roots can be related, regardless of the order of the letters. Now, the word spelled bet-dalet (BD), also means idle talk or prattle. It would not be outside of midrashic exegesis to propose that this verse means, symbolically, that “idle chatter ate them up.”
Basically, in Talmudic and Midrashic exegesis, Jews do not look for “the one right meaning,” but all the possible meanings, looking for symbolism, metaphor, allegories, word-plays, even puns.
EDIT: A further note on Hebrew:
“To avoid the trap of idolatry—the illusion of possessing the meaning—Hebrew tradition has introduced the idea of levels of meaning.” (Marc-Alain Ouaknin, The Burnt Book: Reading the Talmud) This is based on the language itself. Hebrew is more of a “depth language” than a “precision” language. Words have layers of meanings, which deepen and expand in association with other words, phrases, etc.
15 Sep 05
1 edit
Originally posted by David C[/b]Actually I thought it was the answer to "What is the meaning of life, the universe and everything?" 🙂
Originally posted by frogstomp
[b]Thats a recurring number in the OT. vistesd has a decent theory on it.
Originally posted by Bosse de Nage
Pssst, vistesd--I know your monkey mind is active at the moment--remind of number 42, with special reference to Elisha & his bears?
Originally posted by genius
and ...[text shortened]... I'd like to know what the significance of 30 + 12 might be. Please don't say "Deep Thought".
15 Sep 05
Originally posted by vistesdso, basically you are saying it is a play on words?
Just now... Ignore their idle flattery, however. 😳
Second Kings: 23 He went up from there to Bethel; and while he was going up on the way, some small boys came out of the city and jeered at him, saying, "Go away, baldhead! Go away, baldhead!"
24 When he turned around and saw them, he cursed them in the name of the LORD. Then two she-bears came out ...[text shortened]... have layers of meanings, which deepen and expand in association with other words, phrases, etc.
15 Sep 05
Originally posted by geniusI am saying that there are levels of meanings. Word play opens up some of them (I am told there's a lot of punning in Hebrew; unfortunately my Hebrew is so bad that I have to really work to find such stuff). So, I am not saying that is the meaning; only that it is one of the possible meanings, given how the language works. The "literal" meaning (what in Hebrew is called p'shat, the "plain" meaning) is another.
so, basically you are saying it is a play on words?
See the EDIT I added; I may not have gotten it in one time. I had to run outside to do a chore.