Here to save the day

@secondson said
Just so you know, you can't "join" the church. You must be born into it.

Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
The wind bl ...[text shortened]... tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.
John 3:5-8

Even the devil can cite scripture for his own purpose.

@fmf said
What year/era/developmental stage would you go back to ~ so to speak ~ in terms of medical technology, medicine, healthcare, surgical techniques etc.?

You can never go back. The doors of Eden are closed to us forever. The task, then, is to determine which technologies bind us to the service of mammon and which do not. Unsurprisingly, there are quite a few in the first category. The degree to which we are able to say 'no' to them is the degree to which we may be said to have free will.

@rwingett said
Even the devil can cite scripture for his own purpose.

But when he does he either adds to or takes away from the scripture for to deceive.

And it's true that many(men)cite scripture erroneously.

Fact is though, the Word of God is immutable in spite of the efforts of both man and devil to undermine it.

@secondson said
But when he does he either adds to or takes away from the scripture for to deceive.

And it's true that many(men)cite scripture erroneously.

Fact is though, the Word of God is immutable in spite of the efforts of both man and devil to undermine it.

Please evidence sir that the bible is the word of God?

@ghost-of-a-duke said
Please evidence sir that the bible is the word of God?

It, the Bible, which is the Word of God, says so. Does God lie?

Not an acceptable answer? I suppose it wouldn't be to you considering the circumstances that effect your perspective.(Not intended as a slight)

The evidence you ask for requires an expansive view of a very simple principle of the truth. I can cite chapter and verse all day, but for the sake of brevity I'll reduce the principal to one simple concept.

Light. Not the light you see with your eyes, but as a metaphor for the truth. Light dispels darkness. Darkness as a metaphor for what is not truth.

The Bible says that Jesus is the light of men. The Bible says that Jesus is The Truth. The Bible says that Jesus is the Word of God.

The Bible says the Word of God is like a seed.

But we've heard all that before haven't we?

The thing that puzzles me though is this. How is it that one man can see and recognize within himself the twisted nature that separates him from the light while another cannot?

Election? Predestination?

@secondson said
It, the Bible, which is the Word of God, says so. Does God lie?

Not an acceptable answer? I suppose it wouldn't be to you considering the circumstances that effect your perspective.(Not intended as a slight)

The evidence you ask for requires an expansive view of a very simple principle of the truth. I can cite chapter and verse all day, but for the sake of brevity I'l ...[text shortened]... twisted nature that separates him from the light while another cannot?

Election? Predestination?

This is not evidence.

@secondson said
It, the Bible, which is the Word of God, says so. Does God lie?

Not an acceptable answer? I suppose it wouldn't be to you considering the circumstances that effect your perspective.(Not intended as a slight)

The evidence you ask for requires an expansive view of a very simple principle of the truth. I can cite chapter and verse all day, but for the sake of brevity I'l ...[text shortened]... twisted nature that separates him from the light while another cannot?

Election? Predestination?

You hit the nail on the head there sir. The Bible itself is its own evidence, which to be honest is something of a problem.

'Any' book could 'self-claim' to be the word of God.

@ghost-of-a-duke said
You hit the nail on the head there sir. The Bible itself is its own evidence, which to be honest is something of a problem.

'Any' book could 'self-claim' to be the word of God.

Can any book say it is the Word of God?

Better yet, does any other book self-claim to be the Word of God?

If you can provide any evidence sir, chapter and verse, I would greatly appreciate it.

I've seen no evidence of that anywhere before except in the Bible.

@fmf said
This is not evidence.

The evidence is contained in the light. That you reject the light is the evidence of the fact, that while you claim to have once been a Christian, you were never born again, which, if you had been, would have given you light.

The first ray of light, "In the beginning God created...", which if you had believed, then you would be home by now.

But that's ok. It's never too late.

@secondson said
Can any book say it is the Word of God?

Better yet, does any other book self-claim to be the Word of God?

If you can provide any evidence sir, chapter and verse, I would greatly appreciate it.

I've seen no evidence of that anywhere before except in the Bible.

There are many such examples sir. Take for instance the Book of Mormon, which purports to being translated by the power of God and implying He had transcribed the words. - 'come forth by the gift and power of God unto the interpretation thereof."

I could also, if you like, reference the Vedas and some of the other scriptures of Hinduism, as well as Bahá'í scriptures?

But that's beside the point. I could easily produce my own religious book tomorrow and claim it was inspired by the word of God, and indeed have this very book state quite clearly that it came from God. - Would that alone be evidence for you of its divine authorship?!

@secondson said
The evidence is contained in the light. That you reject the light is the evidence of the fact, that while you claim to have once been a Christian, you were never born again, which, if you had been, would have given you light.

The first ray of light, "In the beginning God created...", which if you had believed, then you would be home by now.

But that's ok. It's never too late.

Nor are these assertions evidence.

@rwingett said
You can never go back. The doors of Eden are closed to us forever.

Jesus said, "With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible."

Of course this is out of context, but the same principle applies.

Adam and Eve had to be "driven" out of Eden. They didn't want to go. However, from that moment on the Bible tells the story of God's redemption. God has made a way of return.

@rwingett said
Alright, now that I've been summoned back into duty to save the Spirituality Forum from collapsing into ruin, we'll have to pick a topic to bitterly argue about. Any suggestions?

Bitterly argue about?

Every time I post something everyone is in 100% agreement.

It must suck to be the Ming.

So tell me Mr. Merciless, who should be disembowel today, Christians, conservatives, or all the above?

Please no more throwing us to the lions. Nero was sooo yesterday.

@fmf said
This is not evidence.

Are you absolutely sure that you are not mistaken about that? It would be more accurate to say you are not willing to accept it as evidence.

@dj2becker said
Are you absolutely sure that you are not mistaken about that? It would be more accurate to say you are not willing to accept it as evidence.

SecondSon is simply reeling off assertions about his own state of mind and beliefs. He is not offering any evidence. His certainty and his sincerity are not pieces of evidence.