12 Apr 05
Originally posted by no1marauderRead Matthew 25 in context of Matthew as a whole, including the two parables beforehand that verify what I'm saying.
I defy you to find in Matthew 25 where it says believers only will be judged by those standards. Matthew 32 says specifically: "and before him shall be gathered all the nations"! Do you know what the word "ALL" means?????
12 Apr 05
Originally posted by DarfiusAre you talking to me? (This is a fast growing thread 🙂 )
Now I have to spend hours finding every verse in the Bible that shows what I'm saying to be true?
Are you calling me a liar, tel? Are you purposely being difficult so as to put God in a bad light if I refuse to find the verse you can look up yourself?
Childish.
12 Apr 05
Originally posted by DarfiusThat's a cop out, Darfius.
Now I have to spend hours finding every verse in the Bible that shows what I'm saying to be true?
Are you calling me a liar, tel? Are you purposely being difficult so as to put God in a bad light if I refuse to find the verse you can look up yourself?
Childish.
The point is you can't look it up yourself. It's not there.
I have clearly demonstrated that according to the word of God no man can live a righteous life. He can only be justified by the sacrifice of Christ. I even had the honesty to quote the verses.
Now you've stated and failed to demonstrate that either of the following positions are supported by the Bible:
1) Children are innocent and therefore automatically go to heaven
2) People who never heard the message of Christ may qualify for entrance into heaven based upon living a righteous life.
12 Apr 05
Originally posted by no1marauderI believe it means both Jews and Gentiles. (Which covers just about everybody.) But what's your point? That God will judge everyone - I don't think you are going to get any disagreement on that.
I defy you to find in Matthew 25 where it says believers only will be judged by those standards. Matthew 32 says specifically: "and before him shall be gathered all the nations"! Do you know what the word "ALL" means?????
(almost posted something other than Gentiles - stupid spell-checker!)😲
12 Apr 05
Originally posted by ColettiWhat an idiot! Here's the ENTIRE passage:
That depends. Are you a goat or a sheep.
It's a parable.
Mat 25:33 and He will put the sheep on His right, and the goats on the left.
31 But when the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the angels with him, then shall he sit on the throne of his glory:
32 and before him shall be gathered all the nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as the shepherd separateth the sheep from the goats;
33 and he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.
34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
35 for I was hungry, and ye gave me to eat; I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink; I was a stranger, and ye took me in;
36 naked, and ye clothed me; I was sick, and ye visited me; I was in prison, and ye came unto me.
37 Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee hungry, and fed thee? or athirst, and gave thee drink?
38 And when saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?
39 And when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?
40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it unto one of these my brethren, even these least, ye did it unto me.
41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into the eternal fire which is prepared for the devil and his angels:
42 for I was hungry, and ye did not give me to eat; I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink;
43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in; naked, and ye clothed me not; sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.
44 Then shall they also answer, saying, Lord, when saw we thee hungry, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?
45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not unto one of these least, ye did it not unto me.
46 And these shall go away into eternal punishment: but the righteous into eternal life.
Again, 32 "as the shepherd separateth the sheep from the goats" is a metaphor but the passage itself is a detailed description of Judgment Day in Jesus' own words! It flabbergasts me that someone who calls himself a "Christian" apparently doesn't take it seriously. Recap: Your God describing how people will be judged on Judgment Day is a parable????????? The mind reels.
12 Apr 05
Originally posted by DarfiusThe two parables before do no SUCH thing; they don't bear at ALL on your "two-tiered" approach. Jesus' words are absolutely clear that ALL men will be judged by the same standards; there is no wiggle room at all.
Read Matthew 25 in context of Matthew as a whole, including the two parables beforehand that verify what I'm saying.
12 Apr 05
Originally posted by telerionThe latter I did show with Isaiah and Psalms. Ask yourself if it would be fair if people who've never heard the Word to be judged by the Word and then REMEMBER that God is the ultimate fairness. Why would Paul say that man is without excuse because God's existence is testified in Nature? He didn't say because of the Word. He said because Nature (everyone can see). I understand if you put me in a bad light, but don't lie to spread your misery.
That's a cop out, Darfius.
The point is you can't look it up yourself. It's not there.
I have clearly demonstrated that according to the word of God no man can live a righteous life. He can only be justified by the sacrifice of Christ. I even had the honesty to quote the verses.
Now you've stated and failed to demonstrate that either of the f ...[text shortened]... d the message of Christ may qualify for entrance into heaven based upon living a righteous life.
God has made His existence obvious in creation (Romans 1:20). If someone responds positively to the idea of the existence of God, He can give them a dream or a vision (as He did with Cornelius in Acts, for example). He can send a missionary or an angel. Or He can give them a Bible. God is not limited in His resources, and all of these things occur still today.
Act 17:30 The times of ignorance therefore God overlooked. But now he commands that all people everywhere should repent...
And the nail in your coffin: Romans 5:13-
For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.
As for children being innocent:
"your little ones who you said would become a prey, and your sons, who this day have no knowledge of good or evil, shall enter there, and I will give it to them and they shall possess it" (Deuteronomy 1:39).
"before the boy will know {enough} to refuse evil and choose good, the land whose two kings you dread will be forsaken" (Isaiah 7:16).
Matthew 2 And Jesus called a little child unto him, and set him in the midst of them, 3 And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven. 4 Whosoever therefore shall humble himself as this little child, the same is greatest in the kingdom of heaven.
God never changes. If He spares little ones while they live, He will when they die.
12 Apr 05
Originally posted by no1marauderYou're clearly not interested in discussion or learning, so feel free to continue your monologue.
The two parables before do no SUCH thing; they don't bear at ALL on your "two-tiered" approach. Jesus' words are absolutely clear that ALL men will be judged by the same standards; there is no wiggle room at all.
Any Christian knows Jesus is referring to those who would call themselves believers.
12 Apr 05
Originally posted by DarfiusAny Christian knows Jesus is referring to those who would call themselves believers.
You're clearly not interested in discussion or learning, so feel free to continue your monologue.
Any Christian knows Jesus is referring to those who would call themselves believers.
By the magic of the Holy Spirit apparently since He says no such thing. I guess the beliefs of "Christians" can override the clear words of Jesus, right Darfius?
12 Apr 05
Originally posted by no1marauderNo, the Holy Spirit makes Jesus' words clear.
Any Christian knows Jesus is referring to those who would call themselves believers.
By the magic of the Holy Spirit apparently since He says no such thing. I guess the beliefs of "Christians" can override the clear words of Jesus, right Darfius?
12 Apr 05
Originally posted by DarfiusAre you saying that without the Holy Spirit, Jesus' words are unclear? That God needs an interpreter? That only those who think like you are given the magic, secret decoder ring to understand what Jesus said?
No, the Holy Spirit [b]makes Jesus' words clear.[/b]
No, what He said is clear, but you refuse to believe it. Why is that, Darfius?
12 Apr 05
Originally posted by no1marauderDo you always answer your own questions?
Are you saying that without the Holy Spirit, Jesus' words are unclear? That God needs an interpreter? That only those who think like you are given the magic, secret decoder ring to understand what Jesus said?
No, what He said is clear, but you refuse to believe it. Why is that, Darfius?
Yes, without the Holy Spirit, Jesus' words are unclear, have you read the Gospels? The Pharisees were stumped by Him. The Saducees were. Many people left in confusion when He talked about eating His flesh and drinking His blood. Without a willingness to learn and be humble, the Holy Spirit will not make Him clear to you. You calling Him (Holy Spirit) a "magic, decoder ring" doesn't change the facts. It makes you look like a person who uses insults to debate, which, in fact, is what you do.
Yes, what He said is clear, no1. It's too bad you're too blinded by your pride to see it.
12 Apr 05
Originally posted by sasquatch672Jesus said heaven will be filled with little Children.
So...lessay that you go to a village in Tibet where there's no radio, television, very limited traffic in and out of the place, the terrain is very forbidding. So to date, no brave Christian souls have ventured forth to this place to preach the word and convert these heathens.
Do they go to hell?
What about the small children that died in the Boxing Day tsunami? Do they go to hell because they never received the Word?
12 Apr 05
Originally posted by no1marauderTell me, how do you define Christian? You seem quick to question my faith. Do you really know what it means?
Again, 32 "as the shepherd separateth the sheep from the goats" is a metaphor but the passage itself is a detailed description of Judgment Day in Jesus' own words! It flabbergasts me that someone who calls himself a "Christian" apparently doesn't take it seriously. Recap: Your God describing how people will be judged on Judgment Day is a parable????????? The mind reels.