How does the prospect of death...

@fmf said
You said you were lying in a hospital bed about three times, not knowing, and you never worried. But now you're saying you WERE worried about the people you would leave behind. Which one is it? I am the breadwinner in my family and two people I'd leave behind are dependent on me. You seem to be suggesting that if I had faith in God, He wouldn't need me to take care of anyone... o ...[text shortened]... his strikes me as a peculiarly egocentric take on family, loved ones, and people you'd leave behind.

<<You seem to be suggesting that if I had faith in God, He wouldn't need me to take care of anyone... or some such. This strikes me as a peculiarly egocentric take on family, loved ones, and people you'd leave behind.>>

I think you have it backwards. What’s egocentric is thinking the people who are currently dependent on you would be helpless without you.

@pb1022 said
I think you have it backwards. What’s egocentric is thinking the people who are currently dependent on you would be helpless without you.

I have said nothing about anyone being "helpless".

@pb1022 said
God can take care of anyone He chooses, regardless of whether you have faith in Him or not and regardless of whether you believe He exists or not.

You don’t grant permission to God to take care of someone by believing in Him and you don’t deny Him the ability to take care of someone by not believing in Him.

God does what He wants.

I am not talking about whether or not you would "grant permission to God" to do something. You either would be worried about those you'd be leaving behind or you wouldn't be.

@fmf said
I am not talking about whether or not you would "grant permission to God" to do something. You either would be worried about those you'd be leaving behind or you wouldn't be.

I was referencing your comment to KellyJay.

@fmf said
I have said nothing about anyone being "helpless".

That was the impression your post made on me.

@pb1022 said
That was the impression your post made on me.

Maybe you just don't have the life experience needed to empathize with people in the predicament KellyJay and I are talking about. Maybe you have just as much difficulty with this issue as you did with the issue I raised when I shared my story about my wife being close to death.

@fmf said
You said you were lying in a hospital bed about three times, not knowing, and you never worried. But now you're saying you WERE worried about the people you would leave behind. Which one is it? I am the breadwinner in my family and two people I'd leave behind are dependent on me. You seem to be suggesting that if I had faith in God, He wouldn't need me to take care of anyone... o ...[text shortened]... his strikes me as a peculiarly egocentric take on family, loved ones, and people you'd leave behind.

I said I know how they would feel as I did when I lost a loved one. So I can’t be cavalier about leaving this life, that doesn’t mean I don’t trust God.

@fmf said
Maybe you just don't have the life experience needed to empathize with people in the predicament KellyJay and I are talking about. Maybe you have just as much difficulty with this issue as you did with the issue I raised when I shared my story about my wife being close to death.

I understood perfectly what you shared in your story about your wife being in the hospital and potentially dying, but you standing strong and refusing to pray to Jesus and what a monumental game changer it would have been had you done so.

As to whether I can relate to your more current post, I certainly am not going to share personal info on here when the info is used for trolling purposes - and often viciously so.

@pb1022 said
I understood perfectly what you shared in your story about your wife being in the hospital and potentially dying, but you standing strong and refusing to pray to Jesus and what a monumental game changer it would have been had you done so.

If you think I saw myself as "standing strong and refusing to pray to Jesus" then you did not understand the story.

@pb1022 said
As to whether I can relate to your more current post, I certainly am not going to share personal info on here when the info is used for trolling purposes - and often viciously so.

Your reaction to me talking about my wife's near-death, and your suggestion that being worried about my loved ones after I die is egocentric, reveal more personal information about you that you might realize.

@fmf said
If you think I saw myself as "standing strong and refusing to pray to Jesus" then you did not understand the story.

You were standing strong in your atheism by refusing to pray to Jesus. That was the whole point of your story.

You even said your personal experience in that hospital room with your wife proved there are atheists in foxholes.

@fmf said
Your reaction to me talking about my wife's near-death, and your suggestion that being worried about my loved ones after I die is egocentric, reveal more personal information about you that you might realize.

Everyone is worried about their loved ones if he or she is on the verge of death. That wasn’t what I was responding to.

What I was responding to was your claim that KellyJay thought God would only take care of your loved ones after you die if you had faith in Him. I was pointing out that wasn’t the case and that God can and does help whomever he wants

I think you misunderstood my point or are purposefully misrepresenting it (which wouldn’t be a first for you.)

@fmf said
If you think I saw myself as "standing strong and refusing to pray to Jesus" then you did not understand the story.

I hope you understand that kind of thing is akin to something sacred to me. I in no way want to criticize you for anything during that time or anything following. I can’t help but feel I inadvertently did in our past years ago, and I humbly apologize if I did. Those times are raw for us and even well meaning people can insult while trying to comfort. Heated discussions is no place for that!

@pb1022 said
You were standing strong in your atheism by refusing to pray to Jesus.

No. You are missing the point. Perhaps deliberately so, because you are paraphrasing me disingenuously rather than quoting me.

I did not say I was "standing strong" in my atheism "by refusing to pray to Jesus". That is a grotesque characterization of what I went through that night.

You are bordering on what appears to be an attempt to troll me with personal information about my wife's brush with death.

@kellyjay said
I hope you understand that kind of thing is akin to something sacred to me. I in no way want to criticize you for anything during that time or anything following. I can’t help but feel I inadvertently did in our past years ago, and I humbly apologize if I did. Those times are raw for us and even well meaning people can insult while trying to comfort. Heated discussions is no place for that!

We're good, KellyJay. No worries.