Originally posted by Rajk999Everyone is saved, but Jesus died so that we could do good works and
Everyone is already saved from sin which was inherited from Adam.
That was the free gift - the Grace of God - the thing we could not save ourselves from - our filthy rags of righteousness could not help us.
Not everyone will gets eternal life - that requires faith and works.
get eternal life? What changed and why? If all it was ever going to take was
good works to get eternal life why did Jesus need to die and rise from the
dead? Seriously, good works are just good works, people have been doing
that forever, even though they are sinners they still do from time to time
good works.
Seems to me that Jesus death for our sins wasn't enough for you!
Kelly
Originally posted by KellyJayI answered that question already. Please read the previous posts.
Everyone is saved, but Jesus died so that we could do good works and
get eternal life? What changed and why? If all it was ever going to take was
good works to get eternal life why did Jesus need to die and rise from the
dead? Seriously, good works are just good works, people have been doing
that forever, even though they are sinners they still do from ...[text shortened]... to time
good works.
Seems to me that Jesus death for our sins wasn't enough for you!
Kelly
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Originally posted by Rajk999you said
I answered that question already. Please read the previous posts.
God gave his son to die for the sins of the world. All of mankind was saved from sin in the flesh but not all of mankind will get eternal life. There is work to be done in order to qualify for eternal life.
What was the point of Jesus having to suffer and die for our sins? Saved from sin? For what? if we are still going to hell?
So far, all I see is a dangerous cult.
Originally posted by checkbaiterDid I say "..we are still going to hell" ?
you said
God gave his son to die for the sins of the world. All of mankind was saved from sin in the flesh but not all of mankind will get eternal life. There is work to be done in order to qualify for eternal life.
What was the point of Jesus having to suffer and die for our sins? Saved from sin? For what? if we are still going to hell?
So far, all I see is a dangerous cult.
RajK,
I do not get online everyday. Will you give me the links for questions I have asked that you have answered?
1) Why was the man on the cross given eternal life so that he would go to Paradise if he believed in Christ, but did not do any special good works for Paradise? Also, the man was not even baptized on earth, so that good work was not done as well.
2) If babies do not do good works and yet are given eternal life, how can this be so? Aborted babies do not work for God. Born babies that die soon after birth do not work for God.
Below David the King is commenting on the baby that was born to Bathsheba and him. The baby did no good works.
King James Version
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2 Samuel 12: 23
But now he is dead, wherefore should I fast? can I bring him back again? I shall go to him, but he shall not return to me.
Originally posted by KingOnPointIM reluctant to do this as you are not the kind of person that can discuss doctrine or respond to passages provided. One more failing along those lines and Im done discussing anything with you.
RajK,
I do not get online everyday. Will you give me the links for questions I have asked that you have answered?
1) Why was the man on the cross given eternal life so that he would go to Paradise if he believed in Christ, but did not do any special good works for Paradise? Also, the man was not even baptized on earth, so that good work was not done ...[text shortened]... ore should I fast? can I bring him back again? I shall go to him, but he shall not return to me.
Some time ago you started a thread entitled 'Rajk's Belief' and here is your opening post :
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RajK,
Would you tell us how you personally expect to be given eternal life? If you think that you are earning it, why? What scripture actually says "if you live like Christ, you earn eternal life?"
Secondly, you will sin over and over, but Christ never sinned. So, how is it that you don't have to be sinless to earn eternal life? Do you really think that with your sinning over and over, you will earn eternal life?
Christ's sacrifice was a sinless sacrifice to earn salvation for you and everyone else. How is it that you can say you are a sinless person who deserves eternal life?
And why would Christ have to be perfect to earn salvation for everyone else? But for you to earn eternal life for yourself, you don't have to be sinless? You can continue to sin over and over as you live as a human? How can you think you will earn any eternal life with your works?
If I have to earn eternal life with my works, then how will I ever be sinless in the human life so that I can deserve eternal life? If I am given eternal life, then it will be Christ's work, not mine. It is also the same for you since you are a human being.
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Here is my response :
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Mr KOP, first please do not ask me any personal questions and I will not ask you any. My eternal life is between me and God. Secondly, you are famous for asking a barrage of questions and notorious for ignoring answers given. I know this is going to be fruitless but I will answer you. Here is the answer to your question What scripture actually says "if you live like Christ, you earn eternal life?"
My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
(John 10:27-28 KJV)
If any man serve me, let him follow me; and where I am, there shall also my servant be: if any man serve me, him will my Father honour.
(John 12:26 KJV)
Let me translate : Those in Christ follow Christ [that means to obey his commandments as opposed to walk in a line behind him], and Christ rewards them with eternal life.
And by the way some time ago you asked me where in the Bible did Christ say that good works will get you eternal life. I answered and you ignored the answer and have not responded to this day.
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In addition please read carefully and go through the passages, in this thread, that I quoted on the issue of grace and how it applies.
Originally posted by checkbaiterNeither you nor KJ seem to understand what I said. Maybe its my fault for not being clear. Thanks to RJH, he repeated what I said earlier and here it is:
What was the point of Jesus having to suffer and die for our sins? Saved from sin? For what?
I believe you are missing his point. He has a different view of salvation and eternal life. He divides it in two parts.
1. The death of Christ paid the price for all sin of the world. All of mankind was saved from the condemnation that Adams sin brought.
2. The eternal life part requires certain things from the believer like faith and works.
The difference seems to be that in the view of Rajk999 all mankind are saved from the consequences of original sin regardless of their belief, but this does not qualify them for eternal life.
To qualify for eternal life, they must believe in God and Christ and demonstrate faith by obedience to Christ's commands and by doing good deeds and works.
Does that answer your question?
RajK Placed the Following:
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My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
(John 10:27-28 KJV)
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First of all, I care about your soul. I want you to have eternal life. I want you to have the existence of what believers in Christ will be offered in practical reality, even the man on the cross that asked Christ to remember him.
Second, I agree that Christians should live for God. Those that are already saved have a reason to live for God. They are sons and daughters of God. Christians are to live for God because they are saved. They don't have to live for God in order to be saved. Remember the parable about the workers that were paid the same wage for work they did. Some workers did not like it when the shorter working worker received the same wage as the longer working ones.
Matthew 20: 1, 2, 11-14 (KJV)
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For the kingdom of heaven is like unto a man that is an householder, which went out early in the morning to hire labourers into his vineyard.
And when he had agreed with the labourers for a penny a day, he sent them into his vineyard. . .
And when they had received it, they murmured against the goodman of the house,
Saying, These last have wrought but one hour, and thou hast made them equal unto us, which have borne the burden and heat of the day.
But he answered one of them, and said, Friend, I do thee no wrong: didst not thou agree with me for a penny?
Take that thine is, and go thy way: I will give unto this last, even as unto thee.
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I do want to respond to you so that don't reject what is being given to you. However, I don't know how to respond. How exactly are you wanting me to respond?
I accept that Christ said if I put faith in Him as Savior then I can have eternal life. I don't have to wait until some time of my performing good works before I am given eternal life.
John 3: 14, 15, 18 (KJV)
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And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:
That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
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There is a difference between "sheep" that have believed in Christ for salvation, and the sheep that are still lost. "Lost sheep" such as in
Matthew 10: 6 and Matthew 15: 24 do not have eternal life.
Look at what Paul and his companion told the Jailer that he must do to be saved.
Acts 16: 31 (KJV)
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And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.
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Even Peter said the following:
Acts 2: 38, 39 (KJV)
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Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
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Repentance is not a carrying out of living with enough works to gain eternal life. Repentance is a change of mind.
Take a look at the following blue letter bible link about "repent":
http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=G3340&t=KJV
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Acts 2: 38 is shown in Greek at:
http://www.blueletterbible.org/Bible.cfm?b=Act&c=2&t=KJV#s=t_conc_1020038
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When Peter told the people that they shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost, he did not tell them they had to wait until first they lived a proper life of good works.
What else do I type at this point? I hope that you take these comments as a response to your belief.
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Originally posted by Rajk999
Neither you nor KJ seem to understand what I said. Maybe its my fault for not being clear. Thanks to RJH, he repeated what I said earlier and here it is:
I believe you are missing his point. He has a different view of salvation and eternal life. He divides it in two parts.
1. The death of Christ paid the price for all sin of the world. All of manki ...[text shortened]... to Christ's commands and by doing good deeds and works.
Does that answer your question?
1. The death of Christ paid the price for all sin of the world. All of mankind was saved from the condemnation that Adams sin brought.
This is your answer?
Alright then, If one does not do enough works, according to your belief, then what good did the price of the cross accomplish? Where is the profit?