If Jesus lived today...

Originally posted by brobluto
If Jesus arrived for the first time on earth today (no Christianity, no Vatican, no Pope, since he has not been here yet)

what country would he be born in?
Immaculate conception?
stable/manger birth?
would he blog? how would he spread his message?
how would he die to take away our sins?

Basically, relate the Gospels to today's world.

No Christianity means no North and South America as we know it, but a landmass with the indigenous peoples only. Doesn't mean that they're living happily ever after, nor that they're not. How many discoveries would have been made anyway (were inevitable) and how many wouldn't have because the overcrowding of the other continents would've kept everyone else too busy just trying to survive? I wouldn't have been born because my mother's an American mixture. On the plus side, a few other people wouldn't have been either 😉

Originally posted by pawnhandler
No Christianity means no North and South America as we know it, but a landmass with the indigenous peoples only. Doesn't mean that they're living happily ever after, nor that they're not. How many discoveries would have been made anyway (were inevitable) and how many wouldn't have because the overcrowding of the other continents would've kept everyone ...[text shortened]... an American mixture. On the plus side, a few other people wouldn't have been either 😉

Why do you assume that Christanity was necessary for the discovery of America?

Originally posted by brobluto
If Jesus arrived for the first time on earth today (no Christianity, no Vatican, no Pope, since he has not been here yet)

what country would he be born in?
Immaculate conception?
stable/manger birth?
would he blog? how would he spread his message?
how would he die to take away our sins?

Basically, relate the Gospels to today's world.

Jesus existed as a result of society requiring him to.
He was understood and listened to for these reasons, not merely
the words that he spoke.

So your question is moot as 2000 years later we have no way of
knowing whether we would have found an alternative release.
I find it highly unlikely that we wouldn't have found some other
lamb for the slaughter had it not been this chap.

Originally posted by AThousandYoung
Why do you assume that Christanity was necessary for the discovery of America?

No, that's not what I said. But it was key in the colonization of the Americas. Foisting the religion on others and avoiding religious persecution were the main ingredients in the settlements of North, South, and Central America.

Originally posted by pawnhandler
No, that's not what I said. But it was key in the colonization of the Americas. Foisting the religion on others and avoiding religious persecution were the main ingredients in the settlements of North, South, and Central America.

I thought it was about gold and power.

Originally posted by jaywill
What do you mean [b] if Jesus lived today?

If Jesus Christ is not alive today than there is no meaning to anyone's life.

If you doubt than tell me what it would be ?

Jesus resurrected from the dead and can be known today. I mean today.

If He isn't the living Lord and Savior eat, drink, be merry for tomorrow you die. There is nothing else.[/b]

So essentially what you are saying is that if I don't believe what you do then I will die tomorrow. Could you perhaps think your post through? There is more to many people's lives than belief in a greater spirit and overlooking other things.

Originally posted by AThousandYoung
I thought it was about gold and power.

Historically accurate. pawnhandler labours under the assumption that the cross and sword strategy was the main reason for the colonolization. Rather, that's what they told the press. What they did would today be classified as extremism, and of course even Montezuma was shocked by Cortez's ruthless executions (despite being a high priest of a religion that involved human sacrifices and bodies being thrown down the temple stairs).

Originally posted by pawnhandler
No, that's not what I said. But it was key in the colonization of the Americas. Foisting the religion on others and avoiding religious persecution were the main ingredients in the settlements of North, South, and Central America.

I thought the Irish moved there en masse because of a potato shortage back home.
I think there were many reasons for colonization (worldwide) and that religion was only one of them - and often not the main one. Missionaries often explored new territory but the people who moved with their families and actually colonized were not missionaries but people moving for economic reasons (land, gold etc).
I believe the first settlement in the US (the one that started the thanksgiving holiday) grew tobacco as a cash crop and was mostly sponsored for that purpose. -I am no expert on the subject and would welcome corrections.

Originally posted by twhitehead
I thought the Irish moved there en masse because of a potato shortage back home.
I think there were many reasons for colonization (worldwide) and that religion was only one of them - and often not the main one. Missionaries often explored new territory but the people who moved with their families and actually colonized were not missionaries but people mo ...[text shortened]... mostly sponsored for that purpose. -I am no expert on the subject and would welcome corrections.

The settlement of Virginia (named for Queen Elizabeth by Sir Walter Raleigh), where the tobacco came from, preceded that of the 'Pilgrim Fathers', who were intent on establishing a religious state and avoiding persecution.

For ammunition against religion, look no further than those stalwart brethren. For treachery and inhumanity, they're hard to beat.

Originally posted by pawnhandler
No, that's not what I said. But it was key in the colonization of the Americas. Foisting the religion on others and avoiding religious persecution were the main ingredients in the settlements of North, South, and Central America.

So, they moved somewhere where they could persecute, without being persecuted? Oh, the wonderful hypocracy of it all!

Originally posted by scottishinnz
So, they moved somewhere where they could persecute, without being persecuted? Oh, the wonderful hypocracy of it all!

They got a little confused about who was human and who wasn't. Unfortunately, persecution, confused with altruism, became the colonial norm. And when religion was supplanted by science as the main source of ideological clap-trap, Darwin started being invoked as justification for genocide, where before it was enough to say 'them heathens gots to be extriminated'.

Who's left to wipe out now? What's the alibi today? I think it's reached the stage where power doesn't need an alibi.

Originally posted by AThousandYoung
I thought it was about gold and power.

The end was power, gold, glory; religion was one of the means -- and very potent.

Originally posted by Bosse de Nage
They got a little confused about who was human and who wasn't. Unfortunately, persecution, confused with altruism, became the colonial norm. And when religion was supplanted by science as the main source of ideological clap-trap, Darwin started being invoked as justification for genocide, where before it was enough to say 'them heathens gots to be extr ...[text shortened]... What's the alibi today? I think it's reached the stage where power doesn't need an alibi.

That's one of the problems with religion, it's like a group of rival gangs, and you're either "in" or "out". Very divisive. Especially considering they all seem to believe that we're all God's children. Funny that they seem to get such a kick out of killing each other then.

But you're right, of course, religion was just an excuse to get dominion over others.

Originally posted by scottishinnz
That's one of the problems with religion, it's like a group of rival gangs, and you're either "in" or "out". Very divisive. Especially considering they all seem to believe that we're all God's children. Funny that they seem to get such a kick out of killing each other then.

But you're right, of course, religion was just an excuse to get dominion over others.

Hey, even Francis Bacon used religion as an excuse.

Originally posted by Bosse de Nage
Hey, even Francis Bacon used religion as an excuse.

I wonder if Kevin Bacon does too??.... Surely, some excuse, probably in the order of supernatural, is certainly required for Hollow man...