13 Jun 07
Originally posted by SwissGambitI have lied. I feel guilty about lies i've told that have caused others pain, and I've apologised to them. I try to think about my life and the way I want to live it in terms of the effect I have on other people. If someone brings a flashy new iPod into school one day and I really want it, I don't see how thats a sin. How can I help my human desires? What I would not do is steal his iPod. The difference is that wanted something won't have a negative impact on the person who owns it. Stealing it would. Have you never desired an object in your life? Why does the ownership of that object make a differece? Is it wrong to convert my neighbours iPod but not to covert one I see in the window of a shop?"I don't consider myself to be sinning."
So you've never lied, checked out a hot girl, coveted your neighbor's iPod, slept in on the weekends, etc.?
What's your rationale for arbitrarily exempting yourself from following some of God's commands?
"Who said we wanted to play?"
You're playing, whether you like it or not. ...[text shortened]... ng us play. No, you're not allowed to ask what they are. You just need to have faith.
Have I ever checked out a hot girl? I probably have. I don't necessarily feel good about that but likewise I don't feel I've wronged her. I never veiw women as objects. As for sleeping in on weekends, I don't veiw that as a sin. If I have neglected to do something that would help someone else then fair enough. But if all it means is that I will be up saturday night doing homework then the only person I've inconvienienced is myself.
You want to know why I exempt myslef from Gods commands. I don't believe in God. I believe that morals come from social and cultural development including religion. I think a large quantity of my morals come from Christianity, but I will not follow a moral teaching that appears to have no basis other then God said not to. I don't see the logic there at all. I don't think homosexuality is wrong, why should any of us deside what two concenting adults can do when no one is hurt?
Why should I have faith when religion appears to be grounded firmly in human nature without any evidence?
14 Jun 07
Originally posted by Jake EllisonHate to break it to ya, but lying and checking out hot girls are sins. It's not an accident that you felt badly about doing these things.
I have lied. I feel guilty about lies i've told that have caused others pain, and I've apologised to them. I try to think about my life and the way I want to live it in terms of the effect I have on other people. If someone brings a flashy new iPod into school one day and I really want it, I don't see how thats a sin. How can I help my human desires? Wh ...[text shortened]... th when religion appears to be grounded firmly in human nature without any evidence?
How do you think wrong acts come about? Humans desire to do wrong things all the time: murder, steal, lie, rape, etc. So, when you ask, "How can I help my human desires?", I am forced to answer, "Whether you can, or cannot, you must still be held liable for your morally wrong actions."
Forgive me for not accepting your judgments on the other moral issues when you seem confused about the sins you admit committing.
14 Jun 07
Originally posted by scottishinnzThe problem here is, the more we point that out, the more they resist, it was taught to them they would meet terrible adversaries and to always fight against them and fall back on the lord.
If he existed, I would. Since he doesn't, it is, in fact, your game.
Like falling on a vacuum but they don't know that.
14 Jun 07
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Gday Jake Ellison, just thought I'd offer you another perspective on a few of the sins you mentioned. First of all, I agree with you that "checking out" a girl is not neccessarily wrong. In fact, I think that in today's western society where there are very few arranged marriages it is imperative that we "check out" people to consider as partners. Yes, Jesus said that if you look "lustfully" at a woman, then you have already committed aldultery with her in your heart. But I think there is a difference between lust and "checking out". Nevertheless, some things, such as pornography, certainly fall into the "lust" category. Your point (if I'm correct) is that if it doesn't hurt anyone except yourself, then it can't be wrong. I disagree. Firstly, I do believe that checking out a girl purely for self gratification can have negative impacts on people other than yourself. But more significantly, your actions have an influence on who you are as a person. Furthermore, if you you don't "feel good" about it then it must be having some sort of negative impact on you as a person, which will likely impact those around you. But just for a hypothetical situtation, let's say that it has no negative impact on those around you. Is this wrong? I think this is where a belief in a caring and creator god is important in justifying it as being wrong.
14 Jun 07
Originally posted by zablocCan I be committing adultery by doing this since I have no wife or girlfriend?
Yes, Jesus said that if you look "lustfully" at a woman, then you have already committed aldultery with her in your heart.
Also, on the topic, why is committing adultery "in one's heart" such a bad thing?
14 Jun 07
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Originally posted by scottishinnzFirst question... I guess that depends on whether having sex with someone before you marry someone else is similar to the other way round.
Can I be committing adultery by doing this since I have no wife or girlfriend?
Also, on the topic, why is committing adultery "in one's heart" such a bad thing?
Second Question... it's not honest (in the case of a marriage), unless you tell your partner. Then there are going to be other problems...
14 Jun 07
Originally posted by zablocSo, in your opinion, every time I look at a girls posterior after I get married, I should tell my wife, right?
First question... I guess that depends on whether having sex with someone before you marry someone else is similar to the other way round.
Second Question... it's not honest (in the case of a marriage), unless you tell your partner. Then there are going to be other problems...
Sucks being single, doesn't it?
14 Jun 07
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Originally posted by zablocI guess the differance here could be summed up by this:
Gday Jake Ellison, just thought I'd offer you another perspective on a few of the sins you mentioned. First of all, I agree with you that "checking out" a girl is not neccessarily wrong. In fact, I think that in today's western society where there are very few arranged marriages it is imperative that we "check out" people to consider as partners. Yes, Jesus s ief in a caring and creator god is important in justifying it as being wrong.
You look at a beautiful girl and go, man, that's nice. Vs you look at a beautiful girl and go, man, I'd like to jump her bones, making plans.
14 Jun 07
Originally posted by sonhouseWould you be so kind as to point me in the direction of these 'terrible adversaries?'
The problem here is, the more we point that out, the more they resist, it was taught to them they would meet terrible adversaries and to always fight against them and fall back on the lord.
Like falling on a vacuum but they don't know that.
Originally posted by SwissGambitWell in the beginning it was the early persecuters of christians, then anyone who was against christians say in the 1500's in Spain or Italy
Would you be so kind as to point me in the direction of these 'terrible adversaries?'
or the witchhunts in Salem, those who did not toe the line were devils and had to be silenced. Now it's just people like me and scottishinnz and Starrman and the rest of the crew who know you all are full of shyte as a christmas turkey. A god would never cause a situation where diabolically opposed religions could be at each others throats for a thousand years. There is no rational for these so-called religions like christianity and islam to have come from a god, only ambition dipped mentally unbalanced men who think they see a god or even worse, like L Ron Hubbard, knows full well not, but just wanted to start a religion to #1, get rich, #2, control people and last but not least #3, subjugate women. Like, how many female Popes have there EVER been in 2000 years? How many female Immams? And so forth all the way down the line. Now offshoots of your sick religion have had women in positions of power but not because the religion grew but because the culture grew around it in spite of it. Even a benign religion like Bahai does not have women in its upper ranks. Ever wonder why? Of course not, you already know you are morally superior to women because the bible tells you so. Oh you may spout verses and such showing how women are venerated but deep in your core you think you and all religious men are superior to women. A true god would put an end to that and the killing in its name in short order. The fact that it didn't do that is proof enough there is no god and it's all ALL smoke and mirrors.
14 Jun 07
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Originally posted by sonhouseThat was weird. You started out actually trying to answer my question, but then, in the middle of your first sentence, you just went off on your usual anti-Christian rant. You must really like the sound of your own voice.
Well in the beginning it was the early persecuters of christians, then anyone who was against christians say in the 1500's in Spain or Italy
or the witchhunts in Salem, those who did not toe the line were devils and had to be silenced. Now it's just people like me and scottishinnz and Starrman and the rest of the crew who know you all are full of shyte as ...[text shortened]... t that it didn't do that is proof enough there is no god and it's all ALL smoke and mirrors.
14 Jun 07
Originally posted by SwissGambitI'm not confused about sins I admit to sinning. I know that I've done wrong in the past and I've tried to make amends. I don't believe that you could claim never to have sinned. I don't think 'checking out girls is wrong, I think treating girls as objects is wrong. I can think 'wow shes hot' without staring at her breast and paying no attention to her as a person. Have you never felt attracted to anyone?
Hate to break it to ya, but lying and checking out hot girls are sins. It's not an accident that you felt badly about doing these things.
How do you think wrong acts come about? Humans desire to do wrong things all the time: murder, steal, lie, rape, etc. So, when you ask, "How can I help my human desires?", I am forced to answer, "Whether you can, or ...[text shortened]... ments on the other moral issues when you seem confused about the sins you admit committing.
As for wrong acts. We all contain the capassity to commit acts veiwed by others as wrong. There are many reasons why people commit 'sins'. More important that how wrong acts came about, is how acts came to be perseived as wrong in the first place. I don't believe good and evil exist at fundamental levels. I don't believe in a moral order within the universe. I don't believe in Gods Natural Law. However, I do believe that from a human perspective we can commit crimes and sins. We have defined morals through thousands of years of evolving cultures. I don't consider myself to be apart from this illusion of right and wrong, because how can anyone, as a human, veiw the world from anything other then a human persepective? We can never look at the universe from a fundamental point of veiw. Therefore the actions we take will only have effect relative to the people who feel the consequences. I personally want to lead my live by considering other peoples feelings.
So I'm not confused. I just disagree over some things that you consider to be sins. Let me also say, that I wasn't being totally serious when I said that heaven would be boring without sin.