18 Mar 06
i don't like to jump to conclusions 😉 but...
1) heaven is a place without sin...
all the things that people get so angry with in the world would no longer happen. i imagine it would be just one big happy holiday.
2) hell is a place without God?
God is love. love contains all the things in life our hearts enjoy. i don't want to go to a place i don't enjoy.
19 Mar 06
Originally posted by scottishinnzI didn't say hell was nothing, I said nothing is provided. Therefore, and this is my opinion, hell is in its natural state, untouched by God and His influence.
Wait a sec,
How can it be nothing and something at the same time? Someone talking out their azz, methinks.
DF
19 Mar 06
Originally posted by Conrau K1) God is wherever He wants to be. He has chosen not to be in hell, therefore, He isn't.
I would like to point a few things out to you DF my good friend.
1) If God is omnipresent surely he would be present in hell. Thus Hell would be with God.
2) If God is so loving and forgiving why condemn people to hell
3) Satan is just a biblical figure expropriated by the christians and then represented as evil as a tactic to scare people into conve ...[text shortened]... brimstone (and brimstone has a much lower melting temperature then the temperature of the sun).
2) We've been over this one. God doesn't condemn us to hell, we choose to go there ourselves via the choices we make in this life. If you don't want to go there, I think you know how to avoid it.
3) Ever been touched by a demon? I have, and I assure they are VERY real. But since you don't believe what the Bible says, I wouldn't expect you to beleive in Satan or demons either.
4) LOL That's a good one! I know of no reference to the temperature in heaven. But that insomnia thing is good!
DF
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19 Mar 06
Originally posted by DragonFriend1) Whatever you want to believe. I guess he's not omnipresent (but if he wanted to be....)
1) God is wherever He wants to be. He has chosen not to be in hell, therefore, He isn't.
2) We've been over this one. God doesn't condemn us to hell, we choose to go there ourselves via the choices we make in this life. If you don't want to go there, I think you know how to avoid it.
3) Ever been touched by a demon? I have, and I assure they are V ...[text shortened]... know of no reference to the temperature in heaven. But that insomnia thing is good!
DF
2) I dont believe in free will (and there are various arguments to support me). I also make no conscious decision to go to hell. Not even Hitler did that.
3) I never said that i didn't believe in demons I just said i didn't believe they were evil. Your wrong though, there not real but your "experience" of them is. You just construe them as real.
There are also lots of people who believe they were abducted by aliens. There experiences are equally real (trust me THEY ARE) but we now understand that there expriences are associated with memory suggestion and other phychological occurences.
4) One of my books gives me these references but the translations are so old they probably dont apply to NRV bibles.
Hell: Revelations 1. 28- Revelations describes hell as the "lake which burn with fire and brimstone". Brimstone sublimes into gas at a temperature of 445 degress C. So the temperature would be about this.
Heaven: Isaiah 30. 26- In heaven "the light of the sun shall be sevenfold" which would give an estimated temperature of 495 degrees C (similar to Mars).
Thus heaven should be hotter then hell.
19 Mar 06
Originally posted by Conrau K1) There is no place you can go, while you still draw breath, where God isn't already there. So, for this life, He is omnipresent. And since you don't believe in an afterlife, that's all you need to worry about.
1) Whatever you want to believe. I guess he's not omnipresent (but if he wanted to be....)
2) I dont believe in free will (and there are various arguments to support me). I also make no conscious decision to go to hell. Not even Hitler did that.
3) I never said that i didn't believe in demons I just said i didn't believe they were evil. Your wrong though ...[text shortened]... rature of 495 degrees C (similar to Mars).
Thus heaven should be hotter then hell.
2) That's like saying the thief didn't make a conscious choice to go to jail. It's a true statement, but only when taken at its most literal. The thief did make a conscious choice to steal and he knew that, if caught, he'd go to jail because of it. You're in the same boat with regards to hell.
3) You've given me no reason to accept your premise that demons aren't real.
4) So your position is that light and heat are the same thing? Heck, I should put larger bulbs in my lamps during winter, I'd save myself a bunch on my heating bill!
I'd suggest you throw away that particular book.
DF
19 Mar 06
Originally posted by DragonFriend1) If god isn't present in hell then he's not omnipresent. Maybe "semi-present" might be a better description. Since he's not there, he couldn't know what's happening there, so parhaps "semi-scient" too. Which begs the question - "semi-potent"?
1) There is no place you can go, while you still draw breath, where God isn't already there. So, for this life, He is omnipresent. And since you don't believe in an afterlife, that's all you need to worry about.
2) That's like saying the thief didn't make a conscious choice to go to jail. It's a true statement, but only when taken at its most literal. ...[text shortened]... a bunch on my heating bill!
I'd suggest you throw away that particular book.
DF
4) Heat and light ARE the same. Photons are basically little lumps of (almost) pure energy. Heat is just energy. All the same. Never heard of a heat lamp? Or the sun? How'd you think they work?
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19 Mar 06
Originally posted by DragonFriend1) I'll accept that but with one minor objection. Why do you assume I only have to worry about this life and not the after life?
1) There is no place you can go, while you still draw breath, where God isn't already there. So, for this life, He is omnipresent. And since you don't believe in an afterlife, that's all you need to worry about.
2) That's like saying the thief didn't make a conscious choice to go to jail. It's a true statement, but only when taken at its most literal. ...[text shortened]... a bunch on my heating bill!
I'd suggest you throw away that particular book.
DF
2) I suppose your right, but I dont believe in free will (so you really can't be accountable for your actions). But I'm also not so sure on this hell thing. Because a) what does it mean to reject God? b) Could this include crimes we've already "done time for"? c) It can't exactly be your fault you dont believe in God, so why should God punish our ignorance?
3) You've given me no reason to accept your premise that aliens aren't real.
4) No, the light absorbed from the expanded sun (by seven) would increase the temperature on the earth (and remeber Isiaih and Revelations were both referring to an earthly- heaven, so normal physics still apply). But what scottishinnz said is also correct. Generally heat represents a length of light waves just below red (hence we call it infra-red).
20 Mar 06
Originally posted by DragonFriendHell is in its naturaol state untouched by God and his influence...
I didn't say hell was nothing, I said nothing is provided. Therefore, and this is my opinion, hell is in its natural state, untouched by God and His influence.
DF
Are you suggesting that there is a natural state to the universe that exists without the influence of God?
We'll make an atheist of you yet DF.
20 Mar 06
Originally posted by scottishinnzAs far as this life goes, God is omnipresent. We can conjecture about all sorts of things. Is God one of a race of his type? Does our universe exist in a shoebox in His closet? Etc. But for this life, there is no place you can go where God isn't already there. Call it what you will.
1) If god isn't present in hell then he's not omnipresent. Maybe "semi-present" might be a better description. Since he's not there, he couldn't know what's happening there, so parhaps "semi-scient" too. Which begs the question - "semi-potent"?
4) Heat and light ARE the same. Photons are basically little lumps of (almost) pure energy. Heat is ...[text shortened]... All the same. Never heard of a heat lamp? Or the sun? How'd you think they work?
If heat and light are indentical, when why does my entire room get brighter with a larger bulb but not hotter? The point I'm trying to make is that an increase lumination doesn't automatically mean an increased heat.
DF
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20 Mar 06
Originally posted by DragonFriendyes it does, especially when your talking about the sun with an increase in intesnity by seven times.
I'm trying to make is that an increase lumination doesn't automatically mean an increased heat.
DF
With your understanding, haven't you ever wondered why wet clothes dry out when exposed to the sun?
20 Mar 06
Originally posted by DragonFriendget a thermometre (probably spelt wrong) and hold it to a low powered bulb. Then repeat the process for a higher pwered bulb.
As far as this life goes, God is omnipresent. We can conjecture about all sorts of things. Is God one of a race of his type? Does our universe exist in a shoebox in His closet? Etc. But for this life, there is no place you can go where God isn't already there. Call it what you will.
If heat and light are indentical, when why does my entire room get b ...[text shortened]... ng to make is that an increase lumination doesn't automatically mean an increased heat.
DF
prepare yourself to be amazed.
20 Mar 06
Originally posted by RolfeyGood example. Now, if I hold it 6 feet away, I still have the light but not the heat. That's my point.
get a thermometre (probably spelt wrong) and hold it to a low powered bulb. Then repeat the process for a higher pwered bulb.
prepare yourself to be amazed.
DF
20 Mar 06
Originally posted by DragonFriendIf you increase the wattage of your lightbulb, your room does get hotter, it's just inperceptible to you. A lightbulb doesn't actually throw out much light and therefore heat, but it is disspating heat all the time.
As far as this life goes, God is omnipresent. We can conjecture about all sorts of things. Is God one of a race of his type? Does our universe exist in a shoebox in His closet? Etc. But for this life, there is no place you can go where God isn't already there. Call it what you will.
If heat and light are indentical, when why does my entire room get b ...[text shortened]... ng to make is that an increase lumination doesn't automatically mean an increased heat.
DF
20 Mar 06
Originally posted by DragonFriendYes,but as that Newton chap so rightly pointed out, you have the same amount of light, but spread over a much larger sphere. The light intensity yielded by a lightbulb is tiny, and within a 6 foot sphere there is alot of air to heat up. If you had a perfectly sealed room, and it's walls didn't conduct heat then eventually you could cook your Sunday roast using only a 5 watt bulb and a torch battery. You'd have to give it a few thousand years to come up to temperature though.
Good example. Now, if I hold it 6 feet away, I still have the light but not the heat. That's my point.
DF