I'm Righteous and you’re not because!

Originally posted by sonship

I dont have time for that foolishness.

Rakj999 some of these things TAKE TIME. The Bible is not always easy to really understand well. I have some time so I will help some readers to at least see why I am analyzing that passage as I do.

I could be wrong. But I have taken a long time already to get into this difficult passage.

t least recognize TWO different judgments in Matthew 25 and Revelation 20 ?

Yes or No ?

No there is one judgment at the end of the millenial age.

But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming. Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power. (1Co 15:23-24)

Two resurrections after Christ who is the first fruts
1. Saints [only those that are Christs] next at Christ second coming
2. All now at the end ie at the end of the millenium.

How do I know that in #1 is saints only .. this passage says it and it is repeated in Revelation

Rev_20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

Those resurrected when Christ returns are only saints. Clearly there is no judgment of the wicked there as only BLESSED AND HOLY SAINTS ARE RAISED TO RULE WITH CHRIST. All judgment is reserved for the end of the age. In any case start another thread on this if you like.

But you and I cannot discuss anything Jaywill. I quote and take my instructon from the Bible and you have long drawn out interpretations which depart far from the original meaning of the Bible writers.

Originally posted by Rajk999
But you and I cannot discuss anything Jaywill. I quote and take my instructon from the Bible and you have long drawn out interpretations which depart far from the original meaning of the Bible writers.

And he also does not hold himself above others and trumpet how 'righteous' he is. So much for taking instruction from the Bible.

It doesn't surprise me at all that you were the first to post in this thread.

No there is one judgment at the end of the millenial age.

Wrong.

1.) There has to be a more than one judgment. At least there has to be one of Christians BEFORE the millennium in order to determine whether they will participate in it and to what degree. This is the judgment seat of Christ.

2.) Christ is the judge of "the living and the dead" (Acts 10:42; 2 Timothy 4:1)

This does not mean He has to judge all at the same time. And all the Gentile nations who remain at Christ's coming back to earth, after He has destroyed those Gentiles who follow Antichrist at Armegeddon (Rev. 16:14, 16; 19:11-15, 19) are judged. Joel also tells us this.

They are judged as to which will inherit the millennial kingdom as peoples to be reigned over and which will not.

You see the Lord is the Shepherd not only of the believers (John 10:11; Heb. 13:20) and the Jews (Psa. 80:1; Jer. 31:10) but also of the nations - all the Gentiles (Psa. 100:1-3).

But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming. Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power. (1Co 15:23-24)

This is a passage on resurrection and not really on judgment. It is a great passage but it is not relevant to proving that there is only one judgment.

Two resurrections after Christ who is the first fruts
1. Saints [only those that are Christs] next at Christ second coming
2. All now at the end ie at the end of the millenium.

You are saying then that the passage of Matthew 25:31-46 is the same judgment as occurs in Revelation 20.

The judgment of Revelation 20 says that books were opened of the works of those who are to be judged. But though they are judged by what is written in those books or scrolls they are not cast into the lake of fire based upon those things.

They are cast into the lake of fire because their names are not written in the Lamb's book of life. This should mean that though they are judged concerning their works they perish because their names are not recorded in the book of life.

This probably indicates that the judgment of each is in proportion to the evil of their works in the scrolls or books that were opened. But what determines them going being cast into the second death is the absence of their names from the book of life of the Lamb, the Redeemer.

These also are the dead the great and the small. This must mean all human beings who have died in world history who were not resurrected in the first resurrection 1,000 years earlier.

One may argue that "all the nations will be gathered before Him" means the dead are also gathered. But I count that as probably inaccurate speculation at best. For Christ to have the nations gathered before Him is simply to have a lot of living people of the nations gathered before Him.

No hint is given that this is a time of resurrection these gathered ones. It reads as they are simply living at that time and are gathered.

How do I know that in #1 is saints only .. this passage says it and it is repeated in Revelation

Rev_20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

Reign over whom ? Reign over each other? That is not too logical that they reign over each other.

There has to be some people other than themselves over whom they reign. And the sheep would furnish perfectly those people because they are invited to inherit the kingdom prepared for man from the foundation of the world.

In other words, God prepared from the creation of Adam a world that was intended to be a kingdom of the created man in which he enjoyed the earth. These sheep then are restored and healed back to the condition under the reigning of the overcoming and rewarded saints of God.

They are transferred into the millennial kingdom from this present age. And afterwards they are transferred into the age of the new heaven and new earth. Their names also must be written in the book of life.

The sons of God enjoy a glory prepared for them not from the foundation of the world but "before the foundation of the world" (Eph. 1:4) .

"Even as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world to be holy and without blemish before Him in love, predestinating us unto sonship through Jesus Christ."

So the sons of God enjoy a salvation prepared "before" the foundation of the world.

The peoples of the restored earth over whom these sons of God reign are nations transferred into the millennium for the enjoyment of the kingdom prepared "from" the foundation of the world, In other words the very good earth that God created for Adam.

This very good situation preceeded Adam partaking of either the tree of life (God's divine life) or the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.

Those resurrected when Christ returns are only saints.

Where do you see the words resurrected in Matthew 25:31-46 ?

I see that nations were gathered not resurrected.

Clearly there is no judgment of the wicked there as only BLESSED AND HOLY SAINTS ARE RAISED TO RULE WITH CHRIST. All judgment is reserved for the end of the age. In any case start another thread on this if you like.

RULE OVER WHO ??? RULE OVER EACH OTHER ???

"I will gather all the nations and will bring them to the valley of Jehoshaphat; And I will enter into JUDGMENT with them there because of My people and My inheritance Israel, whom they have scattered among the nations." (JOEL 3:2)

Clearly all judgment is not reserved for after the millennium.
There is NO VALLEY in the great white throne judgment. There is no heaven and no earth for they have fled away from before the face of Christ.

Again in Joel chapter 3 - "Multitudes, multitudes in the valley of decision; for the day of Jehovah has drawn near in the valley of decision." (v.14)

There is no valley decision at the great white throne after the thousand years. Valleys and hills and all earth has fled away and the dead stand suspended somehow before the great white throne of Christ for eternal judgment.

But you and I cannot discuss anything Jaywill. I quote and take my instructon from the Bible and you have long drawn out interpretations which depart far from the original meaning of the Bible writers.

Then I will discuss your concepts as if you are not here. And people can see where the interpretation lies which is more plausible. Readers can decide.

And I am just getting started. I will attempt to persuade readers that the judgment of Mathew 25:31-46 is not the same as the judgment of Revelation 20:11-15. The former is BEFORE the one thousand year kingdom and the latter is AFTER the one thousand year kingdom.

Originally posted by josephw
God said so!

Eternal life is a gift to us if we but reach out in faith and take it.

Only the righteous have eternal life. That righteousness is not our own righteousness, it is the righteousness of Christ. Trusting in what Jesus did on the cross on our behalf is how God is justified in imputing the righteousness of Christ to us.

So simple even a child can understand.

As a child, I was curious and asked questions if I did not understand. But I also knew when the adults didn't want to hear any questions. The child learns to nod and go 'uh-huh' when the adult wants acceptance. They may not be as 'simple' as you think.

Originally posted by SwissGambit
As a child, I was curious and asked questions if I did not understand. But I also knew when the adults didn't want to hear any questions. The child learns to nod and go 'uh-huh' when the adult wants acceptance. They may not be as 'simple' as you think.

Still curious ?

Originally posted by Rajk999
Christ said that in the day of judgment :

[i]When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory: And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats: And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, ...[text shortened]... herefore are not inclined to help anyone but bask in their own self-righteousness and arrogance.

Actually, those that did those things were surprised that was what they
were doing, it wasn't that they were looking for HIM. Those people were
just doing what needed done for all the right reasons, it was not to score
points with God it was meeting needs because they needed to be met.
They were walking out their lives in the love God gave meeting people
where they were, again because they cared for them, not to score points.

If they were doing it to scrore points they would not have been surprised
at Jesus' claim when they did those things to the least they were doing it
unto Him.

If you want to look at those that are keeping score so they can lay at
God's feet that He should let them in I suggest you read Matt 7:21-23 those
guys were keeping score, little good it did them. I'd note that Jesus did
not dispute that they did those works in His name something else was
wrong.
Kelly

Originally posted by Rajk999
Not just any kind of faith JosephW, but faith which demonstrates itself by love... chief of which is love for God and love for your neighbour.

Gal 5:6 For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but [b]faith which worketh by love.

The Pharisees [like many modern day Christans] claimed to have faith but they had no love.[/b]

I love my wife's new car. I HAVE FAITH in the manufacturer. I don't believe it will do much damage to others, and under crash conditions it has been designed to cause minimal damage to the internal or external occupants of the crash. Would the manufacturer of my wife's new car surpass a God, as we would judge one?? What does a God do if a person crashes? Recommend a psychologist? 😀

-m.

Originally posted by KellyJay
Actually, those that did those things were surprised that was what they
were doing, it wasn't that they were looking for HIM. Those people were
just doing what needed done for all the right reasons, it was not to score
points with God it was meeting needs because they needed to be met.
They were walking out their lives in the love God gave meeting peopl ...[text shortened]... sus did
not dispute that they did those works in His name something else was
wrong.
Kelly

You are arguing with yourself pal. All I did was to quote you a passage of what Christ called righteous. If you disagree with Christ go tell Him .

Originally posted by mikelom
I love my wife's new car. I HAVE FAITH in the manufacturer. I don't believe it will do much damage to others, and under crash conditions it has been designed to cause minimal damage to the internal or external occupants of the crash. Would the manufacturer of my wife's new car surpass a God, as we would judge one?? What does a God do if a person crashes? Recommend a psychologist? 😀

-m.

Faith in material and worldly things get you nowhere. The earth and everything init will be destroyed. Only the righteous (see Christ's definition above) will be saved.

Originally posted by KellyJay
?????

Because I live by faith.

The Lord Jesus tells some who say they worked in His name "I never knew you."

“I know you not”—Will the Lord ever say to the saved that He does not know them? However, we need to examine this answer of our Lord’s very carefully: (1) ”But he answered and said”—The word “but” shows that theanswer is unusual and out of all expectation. In Luke 15.22 the same word indicates how totally unthought-of, unhoped-for, and unexpected by the prodigal son were the father’s words to hisservants. The word “but” here proves that the “know not” is not an ordinary not knowing.(2) The Lord knows all who are saved (2 Tim. 2.19, Gal. 4.9, John10.14). Two Greek words are used for “know” in the New Testament:

ginosko

and

oida

. The former signifies an objective knowledge while the latter signifies a subjective and deeper knowledge. Now

oida

is the Greek word employed here by the Lord.(3) How is

oida

used in the Scriptures? It is recognizably employed to mean approve, commend, endorse, or applaud. What follows are a few examples from the New Testament which illustrate the use of this Greek word. In each example, the verb “to know” or “to not know” is

oida

or its variant. “In the midst of you standeth one whom ye know not” (John 1.26). In this situation, of course, the Jews know (

ginosko

) the Lord, but they do not really know (

oida

) Him because they do not love Him. “I knew him not” (John 1.31). Since John and the Lord Jesus are cousins, the Baptist certainly knows Jesus objectively (

ginosko

) but not subjectively (

oida

)—that is to say, John does not know Him deeply. “Ye know neither me, nor myFather” (John 8.19). Though the Jews know (

ginosko

) the Lord quite well externally, they do not approve of Him nor do they receive Him.“I know you not whence ye are” (spoken twice in Luke 13.22-30).Here the Lord speaks of the situation in the kingdom. Some who have eaten and drunk with the Lord and have also heard Him teaching in their streets doubtless know objectively (

ginosko

) the Lord well, yet they are referred to by the Lord as “workers of iniquity”—a phrase which in the original is worded as “workers of unrighteousness”—that is to say, those who do not walk according torule. “Ye know the house of Stephanas” (1 Cor. 16.15). The Corinthian believers know deeply (

oida

) and not just know objectively (

ginosko

) the house of Stephanas. Hence from all theseexamples we learn that

oida

is subjective knowing of a person, which implies a sense of trust.

From "The King and the Kingdom of the Heavens", a Study of Matthew, Watchman Nee

Originally posted by Rajk999
You are arguing with yourself pal. All I did was to quote you a passage of what Christ called righteous. If you disagree with Christ go tell Him .

I did not disagree with Christ, but you....I acknowledge everything that was
said by Jesus....I disagreed with how you choose to paint it as if Jesus said
something else.
Kelly

Originally posted by KellyJay
I did not disagree with Christ, but you....I acknowledge everything that was
said by Jesus....I disagreed with how you choose to paint it as if Jesus said
something else.
Kelly

I painted nothing. In Matt 25 Christ says who is righteous and who is not which is what your thread is about.

The righteous are the loving caring charitable giving ones. The unrighteous are the unloving uncaring uncharitable ungiving ones. Christ also gave the examples of the Good Samaritan and the Rich Man and Lazarus as additional examples of how the Christian should behave. Not all those who claim to be Christs are going to be accepted but those who follow His commandments.

I dont know who falls in which category but it is Christs warning to all Christians about worshipping with their mouth and not with their hearts. Those who follow after the teachings of men and ignore Christ do so at their own peril.

Originally posted by Rajk999
I painted nothing. In Matt 25 Christ says who is righteous and who is not which is what your thread is about.

The righteous are the loving caring charitable giving ones. The unrighteous are the unloving uncaring uncharitable ungiving ones. Christ also gave the examples of the Good Samaritan and the Rich Man and Lazarus as additional examples of how the C ...[text shortened]... hearts. Those who follow after the teachings of men and ignore Christ do so at their own peril.

I've agreed with everything Jesus said, show me where I didn't. I disagreed
with you in that every time someone does a good work it was just to
score points with God. A loving person will do good works, a forgiven person
with the love of God within them will do God's loving good works. I've
always maintained that. The difference between me and you is that you are
trying to get something from God to do good works, I owe God my life due
to his righteousness and could never do enough good works to be saved so
I rely on God's grace and mercy as I live my life out doing the things God
gives me to do. On my own I'm as unrighteous as everyone else, a sinner
that deserves hell.
Kelly

Originally posted by KellyJay
I've agreed with everything Jesus said, show me where I didn't. I disagreed
with you in that every time someone does a good work it was just to
score points with God. A loving person will do good works, a forgiven person
with the love of God within them will do God's loving good works. I've
always maintained that. The difference between me and you is th ...[text shortened]... to do. On my own I'm as unrighteous as everyone else, a sinner
that deserves hell.
Kelly

Where did I say or imply this :

..I disagreed with you in that every time someone does a good work it was just to score points with God.