08 Jun 13
2 edits
Originally posted by sonshipI usually have a bible right on my printer table but it has misplaced itself. When I find it, I'll look. You think of me as an atheist and for the most part you are right, in that I think the bible god is bollocks, no real god would be that insane. I can't deny the possibility of a real god out there but if there is, it is clear to me it has a total hands off attitude towards humans.
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Maybe that god is more enamored of a much more advanced race out there somewhere in this universe or another that is much more deserving of the attention of a real god. I don't think humans rate the attention of a god. We are on our own, and right now just as vulnerable as the dinosaurs to climatic disasters or a mile wide asteroid strike on Earth. There will be no god coming down to fix our boo boos as I have said often before.
Humans have a decided addiction to religion, it seems evolution has selected that trait, more addictive than nicotine and just as deadly.
Sure, you can point to your bible do-gooders on a local level, plenty of those but they don't do it out of the goodness of their hearts, they do it in the hopes they will get a better berth in their imagined heaven, just like Muslims think they are going to get 70 virgins in their imagined heaven. Exact same thing.
Why can't the do-gooders just do good because some people NEED it? Do-gooders with an agenda aren't really do-gooders at all, just thinking this is what you do to get into heaven.
08 Jun 13
Originally posted by sonhouse"One of the Most Articulate & Calmly Stated Position Posts of the Week"
I usually have a bible right on my printer table but it has misplaced itself. When I find it, I'll look. You think of me as an atheist and for the most part you are right, in that I think the bible god is bollocks, no real god would be that insane. I can't deny the possibility of a real god out there but if there is, it is clear to me it has a total hands o ...[text shortened]... nda aren't really do-gooders at all, just thinking this is what you do to get into heaven.
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08 Jun 13
I can't deny the possibility of a real god out there but if there is, it is clear to me it has a total hands off attitude towards humans.
Whereas you see "total hands off" I see that God wants a relationship with the man He created.
Now the issue is how close a relationship would that be ?
I think it is more than creature to Creator.
I think it is more than worshipper to the Worshipped.
I think it is more than servant to the Master.
I think the relationship God seeks is so close that it is exemplified in the organic union and mingling of God and man. It is seen in Jesus Christ as God and man inextricably united.
I think the Bible moves up closer and closer in this regard until the ultimate closeness is seen in Jesus Christ - The eternal and the limited interwoven in one life - a mingling of the Divine and the Human.
It is so close a relationship that God becomes man and man becomes God (in life and in nature but not in His Godhead)
It is beyond "hands on". It is God indwelling man and man living in God in an incorporation.
Maybe that god is more enamored of a much more advanced race out there somewhere in this universe or another that is much more deserving of the attention of a real god.
That human beings mean so much to Him is testified in the fact that as far as it is possible for us to understand - He came and laid down His life for us.
"No one has greater love than this, that one lay down his life for his friends." (John 15:13)
As much as it is possible for our minds to comprehend, the eternal God came in the flesh and laid down His life in sacrifice for us. This proves how important man is to God.
No, I do not know what happened on the some planet around the fifty billionth star in the seven millionth galaxy out there. We don't know.
I think we know ( I believe I know ) what this God did for man on this world.
I don't think humans rate the attention of a god.
Perhaps you are reading something of your own low self esteem and self loathing into God. And I do not mean that obnoxiously. That is not meant to be an insult.
But perhaps you are so disgusted with what you know to be many unworthy things which come out of you, that you assume no God would care to love you.
But I see a God in the bible who is not only pure and perfect but loving also. That the two seemingly contradictory attributes may be expressed simultaneously is what I see going on.
We may assume such is impossible. But in Scripture we see His hatred for sin on one hand yet His great loving for the sinner on the other hand. The two characteristics work at the same time. They are both seen manifested at Calvary on the cross of Christ.
We are on our own, and right now just as vulnerable as the dinosaurs to climatic disasters or a mile wide asteroid strike on Earth. There will be no god coming down to fix our boo boos as I have said often before.
But is your cynicism the actual case ?
The fixing of the sinner is a fixing that occurs deeply from within as God dispenses His Spirit into man. It is a fixing from the inside out. This is not superficial or cheep. This is not trivial.
"Christ in you the hope of glory" From the inside out. From the kernel of a man's being outward to the circumference. That is the salvation that God accomplishes.
I think this is something more than fixing boo boos in some very superficial cartoonish way.
08 Jun 13
1 edit
Originally posted by sonshipSo you figure the plagues of a thousand years ago or the influenza outbreak of the early 20th century where literally millions of people died just from those two diseases was the result of your loving god going, you tick me off? BTW, low self esteem is not one of my problems, if anything I would tend to arrogance.I can't deny the possibility of a real god out there but if there is, it is clear to me it has a total hands off attitude towards humans.
Whereas you see "total hands off" I see that God wants a relationship with the man He created.
Now the issue is how close a relationship would that be ?
I think it is more than creature to this is something more than fixing boo boos in some very superficial cartoonish way.
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08 Jun 13
3 edits
So you figure the plagues of a thousand years ago or the influenza outbreak of the early 20th century where literally millions of people died just from those two diseases was the result of your loving god going, you tick me off?
I think the disease of yesterday and today are reminders that the world is not as it should be since the fall of man.
I think that in our arrogance, maybe if things like this did not occur from time to time, we would go on in our pride and blindness that man's world is just the way it should be.
As a headache or a stomach ache are indications that something is wrong with my body, I think enfluenza are among the negative things that awaken humanity up from following the blind pride of those who think everything is good and godless and the way it should be.
BTW, low self esteem is not one of my problems, if anything I would tend to arrogance.
You said in essence "Why should any God care about messed up people like us?"
If you meant to exclude YOURSELF you didn't do much of a job. Next time tell us that you're the exception.
08 Jun 13
1 edit
Originally posted by sonhouseI hope you get a chance to test it out. I think I would just soon buy a set of binoculars and use them only when I need them.
I would prefer octo's any day. Or an Eagle. They have built in binoculars. At least 10 times the resolution of humans.
The Instructor
09 Jun 13
Originally posted by stellspalfieWhen you design something, it either does what you want or not. If it does
its 10:45 gmt........intelligent design question time!!!!!!
why can eyes trick ears? sound is a physical thing, it enters the ears in a fixed pattern, if so why would god design us so our eyes via the brain can change what we hear??? wouldnt it be better to just hear what we hear? cutting down on confusion. is their any logical reason to for us to hear what we see rather than hear what we hear??? all rather odd, dont ya'think.
what you want, but does not do everything it could if you designed it
differently would that make the design flawed?
Kelly
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09 Jun 13
Originally posted by KellyJaythe question makes is based on an incorrect statement.
When you design something, it either does what you want or not. If it does
what you want, but does not do everything it could if you designed it
differently would that make the design flawed?
Kelly
"When you design something, it either does what you want or not."
this simply isnt true. things are not always black and white and you are failing to take into consideration quality of design. for example i could design something that does all the things i need it to, but it may use too much energy or the parts maybe under too much stress and wear out. design success is to complex to simply say 'does it work or not'
09 Jun 13
Originally posted by stellspalfieWell than you did not design something you really wanted now did you?
the question makes is based on an incorrect statement.
[b]"When you design something, it either does what you want or not."
this simply isnt true. things are not always black and white and you are failing to take into consideration quality of design. for example i could design something that does all the things i need it to, but it may use too ...[text shortened]... o much stress and wear out. design success is to complex to simply say 'does it work or not'[/b]
To call something bad just because you would want it done differently is
also a bad idea, if no one else can come close to making one like it. Do you
have the know how to design a life form that can reproduce itself for years
upon years, that can hear, see, taste, feel, and so on?
Kelly
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09 Jun 13
Originally posted by KellyJay"Well than you did not design something you really wanted now did you?"
Well than you did not design something you really wanted now did you?
To call something bad just because you would want it done differently is
also a bad idea, if no one else can come close to making one like it. Do you
have the know how to design a life form that can reproduce itself for years
upon years, that can hear, see, taste, feel, and so on?
Kelly
again this is too simplistic thinking. just because something has a flaw, doesnt mean you dont need it. something can function to a decent level and be useful and also have design flaws. im sure your house is full of electrical items that will break at some point because they were not designed to an optimal level.....it doesnt me said electrical item had no use.
are you suggesting that if you dont have the skill to design and make something you are in no position to criticize? i cant design a jumbo-jet but i know a badly designed one when it crashes.
you dont have to be able to make a human eye to know that it has many flaws.
09 Jun 13
Originally posted by stellspalfieSo you now understand in a universe wear all things fall apart that the
[b]"Well than you did not design something you really wanted now did you?"
again this is too simplistic thinking. just because something has a flaw, doesnt mean you dont need it. something can function to a decent level and be useful and also have design flaws. im sure your house is full of electrical items that will break at some point because t ...[text shortened]... hen it crashes.
you dont have to be able to make a human eye to know that it has many flaws.[/b]
perfect design will have to wait till the perfect is come?
Kelly
09 Jun 13
Originally posted by KellyJayIn other words, your designer COULDN'T design us better than it did? So it is a limited designer? Not infinitely powerful as you thought?
So you now understand in a universe wear all things fall apart that the
perfect design will have to wait till the perfect is come?
Kelly
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09 Jun 13
Originally posted by KellyJaythats as vague as something vague smeared between two slices of vague and served with a side salad of vague, followed by grandma's homemade vague pie and cream......a universe where all things fall apart? what does this mean? who, what...huh? are you talking about thermodynamics? what is the 'perfect'? god? is it going to make everything perfect? is that even possible? im pretty sure its not going to be perfect for me.
So you now understand in a universe wear all things fall apart that the
perfect design will have to wait till the perfect is come?
Kelly