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06 Oct 11
ok I sat through that entire presentation of utter drivel.
During which I got insulted, and lied to.
Do I get a cookie?
If that is where your getting your information about skepticism from I can see your problem.
You are being lied to.
Try getting your information from somewhere else, because these guys are lying through their teeth.
06 Oct 11
1 edit
Originally posted by jaywillI guess you are the Son of God then, seeing as you aren't sure who your papa is? 😕
Though you insist that your skepticism is very particular, very specialized, I don't see much difference from the examples I've used.
I believe I am definitely on the right track to believe in the existence of God and of Christ the Son of God.
I claim only to be on the right track like you think about your father.
Your analogy is irrational, and quite insulting to googlefudge, or to anybody for that matter.
Unless, of course, you are closetedly calling all atheists bastards! 😲
-m.
Edit: "insulting" being posted whilst google fudge wrote his response!
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06 Oct 11
I was referring to the video presentation of J P Moreland which was insulting to atheists generally when I said I was insulted.
Although I would prefer to use non personal examples for hypothetical's simply because you
can focus on the logic and such without having to worry about offending anyone or having
to extract the emotion.
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06 Oct 11
Originally posted by RJHindsI don't see any advantage in
I did not describe heaven, your description must have been from someone
else. But if I recall correctly the Holy Bible describes heaven as more
wonderful and any man could imagine. I don't see any advantage in
acting like it doesn't exist, even if that were true.
acting like it doesn't exist, even if that were true.
Some people say heaven is a place of limitless happiness that you might fail to get to, if you don't behave morally. In fact, some of them say you will suffer if you don't get to heaven.
Suppose you don't believe in heaven or an afterlife.
Will you behave morally anyway? Or will you say, why be moral -- and do whatever you want? What will most people do, in this situation, if they don't believe in heaven or an afterlife?
Think about it if you have a few seconds.
I think the value of acting like there is no heaven is the value that comes from learning whether you are the kind of person who will act morally anyway.
One theory of moral development has the first stage based on reward or punishment:
http://info.psu.edu.sa/psu/maths/Stages%20of%20Moral%20Development%20According%20to%20Kohlberg.pdf
07 Oct 11
Originally posted by mikelom
I guess you are the Son of God then, seeing as you aren't sure who your papa is? 😕
Your analogy is irrational, and quite insulting to googlefudge, or to anybody for that matter.
Unless, of course, you are closetedly calling all atheists bastards! 😲
-m.
Edit: "insulting" being posted whilst google fudge wrote his response!
I guess you are the Son of God then, seeing as you aren't sure who your papa is?
Your analogy is irrational, and quite insulting to googlefudge, or to anybody for that matter.
Unless, of course, you are closetedly calling all atheists bastards!
None of the above. Man, you're way off.
07 Oct 11
Originally posted by googlefudgeWhat you are asking ia ridiculous and you know it. I think jaywill is too
Yes but I am not claiming to have proof that the person I know as my father is my biological father.
What you don't seem to understand is that I am not looking at individual bits of evidence for your
claim and saying oh that's not good enough, no not that either, no... no...
I have thought carefully about what kind of evidence is needed to just ...[text shortened]... d infinitum of everything.
Doesn't mean you shouldn't be skeptical of anything.
nice to call you on it. But you know me, I am the bad Christian, who
tells it like he see it.
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07 Oct 11
Originally posted by RJHindsIt isn't ridiculous.
What you are asking ia ridiculous and you know it. I think jaywill is too
nice to call you on it. But you know me, I am the bad Christian, who
tells it like he see it.
If your god is as powerful as you claim it should be easy for him.
And it would be exceedingly useful to have a hundred or so new Earth's to colonise
and solve our overpopulation problems.
The point is that if you claim something like 'appearing to walk on water' as a 'proof of god'
then I say that it's possible for something less powerful than god to do that.
In fact magicians do this kind of thing no trouble, so you don't even need the supernatural.
If any miracle you claim as 'proof of god' could be done by anything less powerful than god
it isn't a proof of god. It's evidence not inconsistent with the existence of a god, but it isn't
positive proof for a god.
To prove a being as powerful as god (or so close as to make no practical difference) you need
a Miracle that is extreme enough that only god could do it.
If it's a parlour trick any magician can do it doesn't count.
Heck if it's possible that hyper advanced extra terrestrial aliens could be doing it then it isn't
proof of god.
You keep listing things you claim 'prove god' and what I am saying is that to claim 'proof' of god
you really do need something on the scale and difficulty of my completely rearranging the solar system
example.
Anything less that that and it could be something less than god just pretending.
The same applies for 'personal experience' because however real it felt you have nothing to demonstrate
that it was real and not a hallucination or something else you mistook for whatever your experience was.
07 Oct 11
Originally posted by googlefudgeYou are like the scribes and Pharisees who ask for some special proof.
It isn't ridiculous.
If your god is as powerful as you claim it should be easy for him.
And it would be exceedingly useful to have a hundred or so new Earth's to colonise
and solve our overpopulation problems.
The point is that if you claim something like 'appearing to walk on water' as a 'proof of god'
then I say that it's possible for someth ...[text shortened]... ucination or something else you mistook for whatever your experience was.
Here is what was said to them:
Then some of the scribes and Pharisees said to Him, “Teacher, we want to see
a sign from You.” But He answered and said to them, “An evil and adulterous
generation craves for a sign; and yet no sign will be given to it but the sign of
Jonah the prophet; for just as JONAH WAS THREE DAYS AND THREE NIGHTS
IN THE BELLY OF THE SEA MONSTER, so will the Son of Man be three days and
three nights in the heart of the earth. The men of Nineveh will stand up with
this generation at the judgment, and will condemn it because they repented at
the preaching of Jonah; and behold, something greater than Jonah is here.
(Matthew 12:38-41)
07 Oct 11
Originally posted by RJHindsA children's tale about a man living in a big fish will not help your cause.
You are like the scribes and Pharisees who ask for some special proof.
Here is what was said to them:
Then some of the scribes and Pharisees said to Him, “Teacher, we want to see
a sign from You.” But He answered and said to them, “An evil and adulterous
generation craves for a sign; and yet no sign will be given to it but the sign of
Jonah the proph ...[text shortened]... t
the preaching of Jonah; and behold, something greater than Jonah is here.
(Matthew 12:38-41)
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07 Oct 11
1 edit
Originally posted by RJHindsI don't want special proof.
You are like the scribes and Pharisees who ask for some special proof.
Here is what was said to them:
Then some of the scribes and Pharisees said to Him, “Teacher, we want to see
a sign from You.” But He answered and said to them, “An evil and adulterous
generation craves for a sign; and yet no sign will be given to it but the sign of
Jonah the proph ...[text shortened]... t
the preaching of Jonah; and behold, something greater than Jonah is here.
(Matthew 12:38-41)
I don't think god exists and wouldn't worship him if he did.
I am saying that if you did want actual proof of god, that is the kind of thing it would look like.
That's the standard and calibre of evidence you need if you do want to prove god.
I don't want you to prove god exists, (although if he does I would like to know) I am just trying
to show you what proof of god would look like if you actually had it.
Although to qualify it wouldn't be something 'you personally' would have.
It's not like I would fail to notice the solar system reforming.
Which is part of the point, everyone can see it, and check it, and test it, and have records of it,
not just one or two 'witnesses' who claim to have seen it but have no proof.
07 Oct 11
Originally posted by googlefudgeYou would not worship anything but your penis.
I don't want special proof.
I don't think god exists and wouldn't worship him if he did.
I am saying that if you did want actual proof of god, that is the kind of thing it would look like.
That's the standard and calibre of evidence you need if you do want to prove god.
I don't want you to prove god exists, (although if he does I would like t ...[text shortened]... of it,
not just one or two 'witnesses' who claim to have seen it but have no proof.
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07 Oct 11
1 edit
Originally posted by RJHindsThat's just unnecessary and offensive.
You would not worship anything but your penis.
As well as wrong.
I don't 'worship' anything.
EDIT: we were having a perfectly reasonable conversation and you drop that in the middle of it.
What was the point of just being so crassly insulting?
08 Oct 11
Originally posted by googlefudgeYou know I told you I was raised in Texas and that is part of how
That's just unnecessary and offensive.
As well as wrong.
I don't 'worship' anything.
EDIT: we were having a perfectly reasonable conversation and you drop that in the middle of it.
What was the point of just being so crassly insulting?
we are in my neck of the woods. (Pine tree country).
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08 Oct 11
Originally posted by RJHindsWell you are talking to people not in Texas, who wont accept that as a valid excuse.
You know I told you I was raised in Texas and that is part of how
we are in my neck of the woods. (Pine tree country).
There is no need for, or excuse for, simply being crass and insulting, for no reason.
You can do better.
Excuses along the lines of "that's just how we talk down here" will not be accepted as
excuses for this kind of thing.