Originally posted by Rajk999People are not righteous on their own accord and cannot be righteous by their own volition. So therefore no one is righteous. The only ones who can be deemed righteous are those whose sins have been washed away. But simply believing in God does not make you righteous. All have sinned so no one is righteous and not in need of salvation.
So Jesus was mistaken then?
You are pulling out passages without understanding. Paul in addressing the JEWS, who wanted to exclude the Gentiles from eternal life, believing themselves alone to be righteous, made that statement to the JEWS. All have sinned and all have fallen short, and in that sense nobody is righteous enough for eternal life. But God i ...[text shortened]... will welcome the righteous into the Kingdom of God.
By the way your self-portrait is nice 🙂
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Originally posted by Rank outsider
What happens to those that live a righteous life but don't believe in God?
Heaven or hell?
What happens to those that live a righteous life but don't believe in God?
Heaven or hell?
All human beings are in need of God's salvation. The need to be saved is universal.
What happens in every conceivable case among billions, I am not able to tell you.
I am able to show you that the need for salvation is universal since the fall of Adam.
Have you ever read the first say three chapter of the book of Romans ? This is a foundational epistle to major tenets of the Christian faith.
This book is of 16 chapters. In a long section in chapters one through three Paul writes about condemnation of men before God. And outline in the Recovery Version NT heads the relevant sections to your question like this:
Chatpers 1 verse 18 through chapter 3:20 is all about Condemnation. And it can be divided up into these subsections -
Condemnation on Mankind in General 1:18-32
Condemnation on the Self Righteous 2:1-16
Condemnation on the Religious Specifically 2:17 - 3:8
Condemnation on All the World Totally - 3:9 - 20.
The last sentence in this long section before Paul embarks on a teaching of Justification starting in 3:21 is this -
" Because out of works of the law shall no flesh be justified before Him; for through the law is the clear knowledge of sin." (Rom. 3:20)
And this is after he emphasizes that there are no righteous people in this regard.
" Even as it is written, 'There is none righteous, not even one;
There is none who understands, there is none who seeks out God. (v.11)
All have turned aside; together they have become useless, there is none who does good; there is not so much as one. (v.12)
Their throat is an opened grave; with their tongues they practiced deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips. (v.13)
Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness. (v.14)
Swift are their feet to shed blood; (v.15)
Destruction and misery are in their ways.(v.16)
And the way of peace they have not known.(v.17)
There is no fear of God before their eyes.(v.18)
Now we know that whatever things the law says, it speaks to those who are under the law, that every mouth may be stopped and all the world may fall under the judgment of God; (v.19)
Because our of the works of the law no flesh shall be justified before Him; for through the law is the clear knowledge of sin. " (v.20)
Then in the next long section on Justification from Condemnation through God's salvation, another time it indicates that ALL have sinned and none express the glory of God as they were created to do originally.
"For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God." (3:23)
God's eternal purpose is not to take forgiven people to Heaven forever.
You should think of the destination of all the saved is to become a corporate living dwelling place as a living temple of God and man united together - New Jerusalem.
All saved are to be conformed to the image of Christ -
"Because those whom he foreknew he also predestination to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the Firstborn among many brothers." (Rom. 8:29)
29 Jul 16
Originally posted by FetchmyjunkBefore Jesus came and washed away the sins of world, was nobody righteous? The Bible is full of statements about righteous and even perfect people.
People are not righteous on their own accord and cannot be righteous by their own volition. So therefore no one is righteous. The only ones who can be deemed righteous are those whose sins have been washed away. But simply believing in God does not make you righteous. All have sinned so no one is righteous and not in need of salvation.
It matters not whose volition it is neither is it of importance how they came to be righteous. What matters is that they are, and because they are, God will count them worthy.
29 Jul 16
Originally posted by sonshipDo you think you answered the question asked?What happens to those that live a righteous life but don't believe in God?
Heaven or hell?
All human beings are in need of God's salvation. The need to be saved is universal.
What happens in every conceivable case among billions, I am not able to tell you.
I am able to show you that the need for salvation is universal since the fa ...[text shortened]... image of His Son, that He might be the Firstborn among many brothers." (Rom. 8:29) [/quote][/b]
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Originally posted by Rajk999In a relative sense - comparing men to other men, this is true. IE. Job was said to be very righteous, compared to his contemporaries.
Before Jesus came and washed away the sins of world, was nobody righteous? The Bible is full of statements about righteous and even perfect people.
It matters not whose volition it is neither is it of importance how they came to be righteous. What matters is that they are, and because they are, God will count them worthy.
But still, as compared to the law of God and certainly as compared to the Son of God - ALL have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God.
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The subject is "Is God a sadist ? .
I have a question. if all have sinned why should we expect that a large jury of those sinning against God should be trusted to arrive at what THEY determine is the appropriate punishment for them ?
To enact a penalty against sexual assault would you assemble a convention of rapists to determine what is the just punishment ?
29 Jul 16
Originally posted by sonshipYou have missed the point as usual.
In a relative sense - comparing men to other men, this is true. IE. [b]Job was said to be very righteous, compared to his contemporaries.
But still, as compared to the law of God and certainly as compared to the Son of God - ALL have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God.[/b]
29 Jul 16
Originally posted by sonshipJesus Christ is judge, jury and executioner. Did someone say otherwise?
The subject is [v]"Is God a sadist ? .
I have a question. if all have sinned why should we expect that a large jury of those sinning against God should be trusted to arrive at what THEY determine is the appropriate punishment for them ?
To enact a penalty against sexual assault would you assemble a convention of rapists to determine what is the just punishment ?[/b]
Matt 25 gives a good example of how Christ will judge.
The unrighteous will be destroyed in the lake of fire.
The righteous will be welcomed into the Kingdom of God.
30 Jul 16
Originally posted by sonshipNot at all. But i think it is important that Christians in general have an openness to the love of God. That the scripture is not so black and white as Christians in general make it.There is a girl, say 2 or 3 years old. Sold into slavery. This is all she knows. By the time she is 23, she is killed. Most slaves don't make it to 23 yrs old.
Was she created, just for damnation?
Are you concerned that maybe God is not too smart ?
Are you concerned that there will be so many cases which are so difficult that He will be unjust and needing assistance from His creatures to be righteous and just ?
It is written, faith brings us to Salvation. And that Salvation is Jesus. This i know is true. But then we have to understand the fullness of this statement. What is Jesus? Jesus and God are One. And what is God? God is Love!
Jesus says, "Love God with all your heart" Or in other words, Love Love with all your heart. When a person Loves someone else, from their heart, Jesus is already there.
This is why I know Enoch was able to be with God in heaven. Scripture states, Enoch loved God, and God took him.
Jesus states when you feed the hungry, cloth the naked, etc. you not only do it for them, but you do it for me as well
30 Jul 16
Originally posted by KellyJayAnd what if this person was never offered, was never taught anything of God.
What it says is that those that live a life of sin will be judged for the deeds they have done,
the words they have said, and so on. Those that seek salvation that was offered to them
by One who did no sin, but instead became sin so we could be forgiven, will find it in Jesus.
Those that reject salvation will remain as they are and will get exactly wha ...[text shortened]... be revealed if you were or not. If you were
than you've nothing to worry about, if not...well.
Scripture says, those who know the Law will be judged by the Law, and those who do not know the Law will be judged by the Law written in their hearts
30 Jul 16
Originally posted by Rank outsiderThe scripture actually answers these questions. There are many quotes in both the Old and New Testaments. My favorite being from Paul. "those who do not know the Law will be judged by the Law written in there hearts."
What happens to those that live a righteous life but don't believe in God?
It isn't a matter of how great ones faith is, or how righteous a person lives, but by how deeply you love. Paul states, "faith without love is like a gong clanging in the wind" . I would dare to say, "faith without Jesus is like a gong clanging in the wind" . But what i will also say, a person can Love, and still not know Jesus. Meaning, not knowing Jesus in there mind. There is a difference, knowing Jesus in the mind and knowing Him in your heart.
30 Jul 16
Originally posted by Rajk999correct. but i think the term righteous life here is one of compassion, which is a form of love.
Those who live a righteous life [by the definition of Jesus], are of God, regardless of what they believe.
Those who live a sinful life, are of the Devil, regardless of what they believe.
30 Jul 16
Originally posted by KellyJayAnd in God all things are possible. Our slate is washed clean by the blood of the Lamb. And in our confessing, seeking God everyday we are made clean still.
All of us have sinned and fallen away from God there isn't a single one of us that are
good enough, or righteous enough.