Is God more cruel than the worst sadist you know?

Originally posted by CalJust
By God's grace I was able to shed that long ago.

When I had that old picture of God, I was under the impression (also based on many scriptures!) that Jesus came to save me from God's wrath. But then I learned that it was actually Jesus' main purpose to show us who the Father really is!

He said: "When you have seen me, you have seen the Father." Imagine ...[text shortened]... the incongruity in still today believing in this medieval picture of God.

Nuff said. CJ out.

Footnote to CJ's Closed Thread: The candor expressed in "I was raised to "worship" and fear in the Lutheran church. A black figure in the background, all-powerful, all knowing, always ready to hit you over the head when you step out of line, no mercy but all judgement." within a sustained conversation about this pivotal chapter during your most impressionable years suggests a subliminal bitterness that won't quit. If "shed" this multi page thread wouldn't have now become site history.

Footnote Two: Originally posted by Grampy Bobby (OP) "Why Are Atheists So Angry?" Thread 157627
1. Atheists genuinely resent the evil that religion has done. No one can seriously deny that religion has been guilty of wickedness in this world and has provided cover for wickedness. I refer not only to abusers who hide under the cloak of clergy, but religious persecutions, the stifling of speech and dissent, the mistreatment of women -- the crimes are legion. While as a believer I think there is much more to be said about this topic, it is certainly reasonable for people to be angry at religion for its abuses, particularly people who have themselves been victims..." Apropos of CJ's experience?

Originally posted by CalJust
This post is in response to recent posts in various threads referring to salvation and eternal damnation, e.g. In Revelations 20.

Consider the worst murderers you know: Manson, Jack the Ripper, Hitler.

OK, let's take Hitler. He killed 6 million people. Let's say he tortured those 6million and then burned them in gas ovens. Now multiply that by a thous ...[text shortened]... ee if there maybe something really abhorrent about that idea, which demands another explanation.

Is it murder to take a life and then to resurrect it later?

Is it murder to create a life in your belly and then snuff it out before it is born?

Is it murder to kill those who murder?

Should God disallow sin and make us slaves to do his bidding, thus insuring that we never die or insure that none of us kill each other?

Is murder a "sin"? If so, why?

Originally posted by whodey
Is it murder to take a life and then to resurrect it later?

Is it murder to create a life in your belly and then snuff it out before it is born?

Is it murder to kill those who murder?

Should God disallow sin and make us slaves to do his bidding, thus insuring that we never die or insure that none of us kill each other?

Is murder a "sin"? If so, why?

I understand that murder is the crime of unlawfully killing a person especially with malice aforethought;


Edit: "Is it murder to take a life and then to resurrect it later?"

Nonsense;


Edit: "Is it murder to create a life in your belly and then snuff it out before it is born?"

No. It is abortion;


Edit: "Is it murder to kill those who murder?"

Depends;


Edit: "Should God disallow sin and make us slaves to do his bidding, thus insuring that we never die or insure that none of us kill each other?"

To this atheist, this question is bonkers;


Edit: "Is murder a "sin"? If so, why?"

Murder is a crime;

😵

Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
suggests a subliminal bitterness that won't quit.... While as a believer I think there is much more to be said about this topic, it is certainly reasonable for people to be angry at religion for its abuses, particularly people who have themselves been victims..." Apropos of CJ's experience?

Please don't patronize me, GB, and pretend that the god that you are preaching right now on RHP is in any way different from the "everlasting hellfire" caricature of my youth.

"I love you all and want all mankind to be saved; unless, of course, you don't love me back in which case I will make sure you fry in hell for ever and ever.

Now please realise that it is not I that is sending you to hell! Oh no, it is YOU YOURSELF, because you have rejected the offer of eternal life that I so freely offered in my Son!"

Please tell me if I am wrong that this, in a nutshell, is your version of the Good News.

Originally posted by CalJust
You clearly underestimate the power of imagery in children...

Sure, I was an idiot - a very scared idiot.

You are probably too young to remember the Holiness Movement. 1950s. Only Do's and Don'ts. God all the time watching you, the Giant Policeman in the Sky, missing nothing.

The picture in our Entrance Hall was of the Broad Way and the Narrow Way ...[text shortened]... oday. The only difference seems to be that people don't visualize the implications so clearly...

I'm 60. Fortunately, I wasn't infected with religious garbage as a child.

Well, now you're an adult. Quit making excuses and read your Bible and get to know the real God, the only God.

God is love!

Originally posted by CalJust
Please don't patronize me, GB, and pretend that the god that you are preaching right now on RHP is in any way different from the "everlasting hellfire" caricature of my youth.

"I love you all and want all mankind to be saved; unless, of course, you don't love me back in which case I will make sure you fry in hell for ever and ever.

Now please realise t ...[text shortened]... on!"

Please tell me if I am wrong that this, in a nutshell, is your version of the Good News.

Someone in domestic authority over you able to exercise prerogatives over your weekly logistical routines exposed you to that living nightmare during an early time continuum when everything was new except your emotional/intellectual innocence which was in the process of being violated. Why not direct your 2014 anger and frustration in that direction or towards the Lutheran Hierarchy or its local organization rather than to site members posting to this forum or to yourself or toward God?

"However, to be angry at Christians for being hypocrites and thus not believe in God is down right foolish. Every person on the planet has the propensity to sin and to sin boldly, even so-called Christians. It's like saying to another human being, "Hey, you're human!" We are just stating the obvious. Could it be that God gave us free choice in the matter and many chose to sin? It's no one's fault but our own. Why does God get the blame for our stupidity? That just doesn't make sense." Thread 157956

Originally posted by Suzianne
I told the same story here before only it was a flood and two motorboats and a helicopter. 😀

I believe i did see that too. But it still holds true, God does work through others whether we know it or not.

Originally posted by CalJust
Simple question, Freaky, yes or no:

Do you believe that anybody who has not accepted Christ as their Personal Saviour will be punished by God in hell for all eternity?

I know, jumping into another's conversation.

The answer is - - - NO!!!!!! At least when it comes to knowing Jesus in your head.

Does any of you "Christians" even KNOW what Jesus IS?

What is Jesus: The Second of Three that make up God (Father, Son, and Holy Spirit)
The Son of God
The Word of God, The Living Word, The Water of Life, The Corner Stone, etc.
Love (love God with all your heart, love your neighbor as yourself)

Now if you say, "You Must Have Jesus In Your Heart", to receive the Father, the answer is a resounding YES!!!!

Originally posted by whodey
Is it murder to take a life and then to resurrect it later?

Is it murder to create a life in your belly and then snuff it out before it is born?

Is it murder to kill those who murder?

Should God disallow sin and make us slaves to do his bidding, thus insuring that we never die or insure that none of us kill each other?

Is murder a "sin"? If so, why?

Yes

Any form of murder is a sin.
To willingly take a life for selfish reasons. Aborting a child so it won't be a burden on the lifestyle. (However, in the case of a life of the mother. The decision should be between the parents and doctor)

Originally posted by CalJust
Simple question, Freaky, yes or no:

Do you believe that anybody who has not accepted Christ as their Personal Saviour will be punished by God in hell for all eternity?

You should word that differently, maybe...

Do you think any sinner who ignores God's sacrifice so that we can be
forgiven for our sins can avoid a devil's Hell for all eternity?

Short answer no.
Kelly

Originally posted by black beetle
I understand that murder is the crime of unlawfully killing a person especially with malice aforethought;


Edit: "Is it murder to take a life and then to resurrect it later?"

Nonsense;


Edit: "Is it murder to create a life in your belly and then snuff it out before it is born?"

No. It is abortion;


Edit: "Is it murder to kill those who ...[text shortened]... is question is bonkers;


Edit: "Is murder a "sin"? If so, why?"

Murder is a crime;

😵

The reason I ask these questions was to show the complexity of the issue. You admitted as much when you said it depends on whether killing a murderer is "wrong".

Biblically, the God of the Bible was executing judgment on the "wicked", or put another way, those that shed innocent blood. He even turned on his own people, the nation of Israel, when they began to do these things.

Speaking of innocent blood, you are all for killing the unborn. For the sake of argument, lets say the unborn are actually human in the eyes of God. If so, if you were God, what would you do to those who murder the innocent unborn if anything?

Originally posted by Pudgenik
Yes

Any form of murder is a sin.
To willingly take a life for selfish reasons. Aborting a child so it won't be a burden on the lifestyle. (However, in the case of a life of the mother. The decision should be between the parents and doctor)

What then do we do with those that murder? I suppose the only answer would be to lock them up indefinitely. Otherwise, you are allowing them to continue to murder. Then again, what if they kill while in jail? It happens all the time you know.

Originally posted by whodey
The reason I ask these questions was to show the complexity of the issue. You admitted as much when you said it depends on whether killing a murderer is "wrong".

Biblically, the God of the Bible was executing judgment on the "wicked", or put another way, those that shed innocent blood. He even turned on his own people, the nation of Israel, when they beg ...[text shortened]... If so, if you were God, what would you do to those who murder the innocent unborn if anything?

They have already shown that they simply redefine terms to fit their wishes.

Originally posted by CalJust
Thanks for this detailed explanation.

Actually, I have never come across this doctrine before; and it certainly does not appear to be Biblical.

But again, that is my opinion. I'm sure you have your reasons.

Actually, I have never come across this doctrine before; and it certainly does not appear to be Biblical.
[gently, patiently and with great restraint]
Ahem.
"Not... biblical?"

Yes, CalJust: it is just your opinion.
I'll give you one other verse to start you on the quest, although there are more upon which this doctrine is fully supported.
Revelation 3:5

Originally posted by CalJust
Please don't patronize me, GB, and pretend that the god that you are preaching right now on RHP is in any way different from the "everlasting hellfire" caricature of my youth.

"I love you all and want all mankind to be saved; unless, of course, you don't love me back in which case I will make sure you fry in hell for ever and ever.

Now please realise t ...[text shortened]... on!"

Please tell me if I am wrong that this, in a nutshell, is your version of the Good News.

God prepared the everlasting hellfire for Satan and his demons. You can easily avoid the fate of Satan and his demons by believing in the gospel of Christ. That is not a heavy burden to carry. Sounds like a loving God to me.