Originally posted by Bad wolfThink about it in terms of interactions. Its the way that the genes interact with each other that determines what we end up with. There is no direct relationship between, say, the number of genes and the complexity of the organism.
I have heard that the activity of the genes is very important, is that right?
Originally posted by josephwWell, at the level of atoms there is no real difference between anything - everything is made of atoms.
But we're made of the same stuff. There must be some relationship. Genes are just matter.
And what makes it alive? What is life if all we are is matter?
Is life more than just matter?
However, relatedness in its normal usage defines a genetic relationship, such as parent - child, brother - sister.
Hip bones in whales and similarities in body plans both offer strong evidence to support the theory of evolution.
From the Dept of Energy website...
There are two large lines of evidence to support the theory of evolution. The first is fossils. The other is HOMOLOGY.
All life on earth, according to evolutionary theory, evolved from common ancestors. All life on earth is related to each other; we are all of the same family. Modern whales have hip bones in their flesh that they do not use because they do not walk. They probably evolved from mammals that did walk. Paleontologists have found a fossil whale called Pakicetus that has more developed rear legs. Older whales should look more like their ancestors if evolution is correct. Without evolution, we could not understand why whales have hip bones. I should also emphasize that homologous structures do not have to be used for the same purpose. Whale flippers and human hands are homologous, but are used in very different ways. Another interesting fossil is Archaeopteryx. This was a dinosaur that had feathered wings, like
birds. Bird and dinosaurs have a common ancestry. This fossil has teeth, although no bird has teeth. It has the skeleton of a dinosaur, but the feathers of a bird. It shows that there was a time when the difference between birds and dinosaurs was not obvious. Birds are the only remaining species from the dinosaur line. Homology is a complicated concept. It means that two structures are similar because they are related genetically. If two structures are similar but not related then they are only analogous. The wings of birds and insects are analogous. They both are used to fly, but in different ways. They are not related animals. Many differences between their structures make this apparent to the keen observer. But the wing of a bat and the wing of a bird are homologous. They both contain the same bones. Both
have an upper arm bone (humerus), both have a radius and ulna (lower arm bones), and both have wrist bones and metacarpals and digits. They were both derived from the same genetic plan.
There is a growing mountain of evidence that supports evolution. It will never be proven true because we can not know for sure. But by using the scientific method, we can make a good guess, based on careful
observations of the earth as it exists today.
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Also, if you are sincerely interested there is a lot of information here -
http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/comdesc/
Originally posted by scottishinnzOk. So then atoms are arranged in such a way that we now have genes? And genes determine the relationships between living things?
Well, at the level of atoms there is no real difference between anything - everything is made of atoms.
However, relatedness in its normal usage defines a genetic relationship, such as parent - child, brother - sister.
But what is it that makes things living as opposed to things not living?
Originally posted by josephwThe arrangement of the atoms. Are you attempting to disprove the existance of atoms or prove the existance of something other than atoms? You'll need more than hokey philosophical arguments (how much does a soul weigh?) to do either. Either provide scientific evidence or stop wasting everybody's time.
Ok. So then atoms are arranged in such a way that we now have genes? And genes determine the relationships between living things?
But what is it that makes things living as opposed to things not living?
Originally posted by josephwThe arrangenment of the pieces is the difference.
Ok. So then atoms are arranged in such a way that we now have genes? And genes determine the relationships between living things?
But what is it that makes things living as opposed to things not living?
In the same way that the pieces that make a car, aren't a car uyntil they are arranged ina particular way.
(And don't use this analogy as an excuse for some sort of ID rubbish.)
Originally posted by josephwFor something to be characterised as alive it must fulfil several criteria. There are some things, for example viruses, or some chemicals which fulfil some of the conditions, but not all of them.
Ok. So then atoms are arranged in such a way that we now have genes? And genes determine the relationships between living things?
But what is it that makes things living as opposed to things not living?
Wiki has a relatively standard definition
"Conventional definition: Often scientists say that life is a characteristic of organisms that exhibit the following phenomena:
1. Homeostasis: Regulation of the internal environment to maintain a constant state; for example, sweating to reduce temperature.
2. Organization: Being composed of one or more cells, which are the basic units of life.
3. Metabolism: Consumption of energy by converting nonliving material into cellular components (anabolism) and decomposing organic matter (catabolism). Living things require energy to maintain internal organization (homeostasis) and to produce the other phenomena associated with life.
4. Growth: Maintenance of a higher rate of synthesis than catalysis. A growing organism increases in size in all of its parts, rather than simply accumulating matter. The particular species begins to multiply and expand as the evolution continues to flourish.
5. Adaptation: The ability to change over a period of time in response to the environment. This ability is fundamental to the process of evolution and is determined by the organism's heredity as well as the composition of metabolized substances, and external factors present.
6. Response to stimuli: A response can take many forms, from the contraction of a unicellular organism when touched to complex reactions involving all the senses of higher animals. A response is often expressed by motion, for example, the leaves of a plant turning toward the sun or an animal chasing its prey.
7. Reproduction: The ability to produce new organisms. Reproduction can be the division of one cell to form two new cells. Usually the term is applied to the production of a new individual (either asexually, from a single parent organism, or sexually, from at least two differing parent organisms), although strictly speaking it also describes the production of new cells in the process of growth."
Originally posted by XanthosNZI guess you and I are just not going to get along:'(
The arrangement of the atoms. Are you attempting to disprove the existance of atoms or prove the existance of something other than atoms? You'll need more than hokey philosophical arguments (how much does a soul weigh?) to do either. Either provide scientific evidence or stop wasting everybody's time.
I sincerely am not trying, at least not this time, to prove anything. I was trying to use other minds as a springboard for some thoughts I was having of my own.
I can't provide any scientific evidence for anything as I am not a scientist.
And I am not trying to waste anybody's time except maybe yours!
😲
And only because it appears you have no sense of humor. 😉