Islamic justice

Originally posted by FabianFnas
And you say the Christian religion have?

As long as the Old Testament is included by the christian holy scriptures, you are wrong. Condemning of the homosexuals for one, the forgiveness of Eve which is the base of the today's partiarcate, the glorification of war and violence, etc. Would you want me to go on?

May I remind you of the Spanish inquisit ...[text shortened]... of priests and spiritual leaders. They are forgived.

(Not personal, mind you, not personal)

i am saying that the teachings of the Christ include forgiveness, would you like me to show you? Christianity is one thing, the teachings of Jesus quite another. But that is not the point, Islam does not embrace the concept of forgiveness, it simply, like Judaism, seeks retribution. Deny it you cannot and this disgraceful incident of utter prejudice and complete contempt for justice is quite frankly indicative of a type of thinking that permeates the lives of its adherents. Did you not notice that the whole village wanted the poor women's death, not one person bold enough to stand up against the injustice, Islam is a lie and I challenge anyone to prove otherwise.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
i am saying that the teachings of the Christ include forgiveness, would you like me to show you? Christianity is one thing, the teachings of Jesus quite another. But that is not the point, Islam does not embrace the concept of forgiveness, it simply, like Judaism, seeks retribution. Deny it you cannot and this disgraceful incident of utter prejudi ...[text shortened]... gh to stand up against the injustice, Islam is a lie and I challenge anyone to prove otherwise.

Doesn't the bible say "eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth"? How much forgiveness can you bring in in this biblical words?

I don't say that one religion is better than the other, I just say that every religion carries violence, immorality, and further. Christianity? Yes. Judaism? Yes. Islam? Yes. Let the one without faults throw the first stone.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
you people are missing the entire point, did you listen to the whole report, did you notice what the Molvi stated, 'even if the court finds her innocent we shall take the law into our own hands, ' is that just? Apparently so if your a staunch Islamist.

he is trying to point out the fact that you judge a whole religion by the actions of a few of its members. and as such, he has the right to point out that by the same logic he can call christians murderers because of the spanish inquisition and the crusades

Originally posted by FabianFnas
Doesn't the bible say "eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth"? How much forgiveness can you bring in in this biblical words?

I don't say that one religion is better than the other, I just say that every religion carries violence, immorality, and further. Christianity? Yes. Judaism? Yes. Islam? Yes. Let the one without faults throw the first stone.

that is the old testament. jesus made some slight modifications.


try and do some research before accusing

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
yes but i don't believe Islam is from God, i believe it is a lie, secondly i do not condone what was practised by the ancient Hebrews i merely point out that I am not in a position to question God, making your statement the same as Agers, straw! Lastly i am not criticising the Islamists for wishing to put to death a person who may or may not have tr ...[text shortened]... powers of observation in the previous posts i made in this thread, who can say, coffee anyone!

dude, common, you cannot with a straight face say that murdering children is wrong, but if god asks it, it is right. why would a benevolent god ask a morally abject deed of his followers? twhite makes a good point. does a benevolent god need to follow the morals he asks of others? or can he do whatever he pleases? does this mean that some humans will too be exempt from obeying some laws too?


so you think it would be right to stone someone? anyone? that there would ever be a case in which hitting someone with rocks over and over until they die would ever be required? we are not talking about the death penalty present in our society (which is mostly wrong anyway), to remove a dangerous element from society for the benefit of all. we are talking about deliberately causing pain to a human being for an extended period of time AND involving other members of society into this abominable act.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
we are Christians, you might take note of the fact, we do not practice stoning, slavery or blood sacrifice! your point is therefore double triple hyper concentrated straw and moot to boot!

You regard blood sacrifice as possibly the most virtuous feature of your faith (the supposed requirement of your god that Jesus be slain), as for slavery and stoning you don't condemn or question these activities as they happened in antiquity. Moreover, you hold that whatever the Bible asserts your god says is good,... is automatically and undeniably good (even if this includes wiping out entire cities (children included) - killing first borns, ordering people to sacrifice their sons, introducing plagues upon populations, and so on...).

Your fundamentalist flavour of religion is just a different spoke on the same gruesome wheel of barbarism and depravity.

As I said earlier, for whatever whacko Islamic acts you deem to be grotesque, most fundamentalist muslims will believe them to be commands from or sentiments of Allah himself; and thus would regard them as righteous, holy, morally transcendent, glorious, and whatever other empty buzzwords Christians throw about. Moreover, to them; their god exists and yours doesn't.

Originally posted by Agerg
You regard blood sacrifice as possibly the most virtuous feature of your faith (the supposed requirement of your god that Jesus be slain), as for slavery and stoning you don't condemn or question these activities as they happened in antiquity. Moreover, you hold that whatever the Bible asserts your god says is good,... is automatically and undeniably good (eve ...[text shortened]... empty buzzwords Christians throw about. Moreover, to them; their god exists and yours doesn't.

you seem to not only be completely ignorant of the Christian faith as embodied in the teachings of Christ, you seem that you would like to project that ignorance onto others, we are Christian, do you understand that? we do not practice blood sacrifice? do you understand that? that its a virtuous feature of my faith is simply a nonsense. Personally I myself do not understand why stoning was permitted nor slavery, however, I am not a God, therefore your assertion that i condone them is in itself once more a hollow and ignorant assertion.

Your fundamentalist flavour of religion is just a different spoke on the same gruesome wheel of barbarism and depravity???

another ignorant and baseless assertion, perhaps if your atheism permitted you to see the countless millions who have been helped to overcome all manner of ills from drug abuse to prostitution you would not have proffered such rubbish, indeed that your atheism is as impotent to help anyone including yourself is founded quite clearly on the fact that its nothing more than a room full of mirrors. Indeed what is more barbaric than someone offering others freedom yet existing as nothing more than a slave to futility, worse than that, inducing others to be like them.

If you have any comment to make with regard to the actual report, that is what was actually posted, then this is the place to do it, feel free, otherwise you may take your rather pathetic soap opera of a post and put it somewhere else.

Originally posted by Zahlanzi
dude, common, you cannot with a straight face say that murdering children is wrong, but if god asks it, it is right. why would a benevolent god ask a morally abject deed of his followers? twhite makes a good point. does a benevolent god need to follow the morals he asks of others? or can he do whatever he pleases? does this mean that some humans will too be ...[text shortened]... for an extended period of time AND involving other members of society into this abominable act.

did i say it was right to stone someone? did i say it was right to put anyone to death? I can justify it if you like, but i am a Christian, it belongs to a different epoch of time, we have a new set of laws, if you are unhappy about the practice, then why are you asking me, i did not put the ordinances and prohibitions in place, did I? If i did not then why are you acting like I did? why are you making out that i am personally responsible? If i am not, then why are you asserting that I am?

Whitey knows nothing about scripture, hes an atheist, he does not read scripture yet purports to be an expert. Indeed, if he did, he would understand that as humans we are limited in experience and prone to aberration, yet despite this, he, as a free moral agent has decided on his own morality, well, let him serve as a god, as for me, I simply realise that I am not a god and have submitted to Gods will. As for these fruitless debates that he seems fond of fomenting, they are useless to me, indeed, the world is full of those with issues, i seemingly dont have any, for the guidance i have is quite clear and thus, i can readily make my mind over as to what the will of God is, thus I am spared their futility.

what you post has to do with the opening post, i cannot readily say.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
you seem to not only be completely ignorant of the Christian faith as embodied in the teachings of Christ, you seem that you would like to project that ignorance onto others, we are Christian, do you understand that? we do not practice blood sacrifice? do you understand that? that its a virtuous feature of my faith is simply a nonsense. Personally ...[text shortened]... ree, otherwise you may take your rather pathetic soap opera of a post and put it somewhere else.

Jesus was supposedly meant to die on the cross - to pay for the sins of humanity.

How is this not a blood sacrifice??? 😕

The millions of people helped to overcome all manner of ills from drug abuse to prostitution (if we suppose that the people who facilitate this necessarily had to believe in God - as opposed to doing it simply for the sake of being nice people) is obscured by the many more millions led to live in fear of an omnipresent God who will cast them to the eternal fires of hell should they waver in their faith, or the unchecked (by true God) hatred from other religious people induced by belief in the "wrong" religion, and I could continue...

Originally posted by Agerg
Jesus was supposedly meant to die on the cross - to pay for the sins of humanity.

How is this [b]not a blood sacrifice??? 😕[/b]

listen up spanky, do you think that we take delight in the suffering? do you think that we like the idea that his blood was spilled? Indeed, what part of virtuous are you trying to foster onto us for his horrific ordeal? The virtue is in his obedience to the point of death, in the fortitude in the face of adversity, in the self sacrifice, not in the actual sacrifice itself as you have mistakenly tried to assert, indeed, which one of these aspects do you not find virtuous, fortitude in the face of adversity, self sacrifice or showing loyal obedience to a cause which would benefit millions?

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
listen up spanky, do you think that we take delight in the suffering? do you think that we like the idea that his blood was spilled? Indeed, what part of virtuous are you trying to foster onto us for his horrific ordeal? The virtue is in his obedience to the point of death, in the fortitude in the face of adversity, in the self sacrifice, not in t ...[text shortened]... of adversity, self sacrifice or showing loyal obedience to a cause which would benefit millions?

The quotes which follow demonstrate it is clear you venerate highly that blood sacrifice of Jesus:

1) it was a very simple and straightforward analogy me thinks, that you have chosen to ignore it is perhaps an indication of its unassailable logic, in that if it can be demonstrated that God, in his omniscient and majestic state, made contingency plans to purge the virus from the system, then he remains blameless.
http://www.redhotchess.com/board/showthread.php?threadid=135780&page=&page=6

2)it was a master-stroke of pure genius, with one propitiating sacrifice he undone all that had transpired in the past, there were no more excuses, no more fences to climb over, once and for all time any person could exercise their conscience and come before God on the basis of that sacrifice. Had God foreseen it, yes indeed, for he created an environment conducive to the reception of the promised seed, being outside the rigours of time, a perfect plan, brought to fruition by a perfect being!
http://www.redhotchess.com/board/showthread.php?threadid=135380&page=&page=1

3)not only is God Just, he is more than Just, for his justice can be tempered with other qualities as well, like mercy for example, thus he is able to look beyond the letter of the law and apply its principles. He always adheres to his own standards of justice, thus the sacrifice that you referred to is a perfect example, for God had decreed that since Adam had disobeyed him and sought moral independence selling mankind into sin and death in the process he should suffer the consequences of his action, however, God found a way to satisfy his own standards of justice through the sacrifice of the Christ which perfectly covered all aspects of what was originally forfeited by Adam. Now humans could apply the merits of the sacrifice, Gods own standards of justice were met and the breach was healed.
http://www.redhotchess.com/board/showthread.php?threadid=135380&page=&page=1


I can dig further if you like, but however you cast this action you regard it as a virtuous thing for your god to have arranged.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
yes but i don't believe Islam is from God, i believe it is a lie, secondly i do not condone what was practised by the ancient Hebrews i merely point out that I am not in a position to question God, making your statement the same as Agers, straw!

So, essentially, your only hope for escape is to first prove that your God is real and theirs is not. Good luck with that. Until then, you are being hypocritical as clearly from their point of view, they are not in a position to question God either.

Originally posted by twhitehead
So, essentially, your only hope for escape is to first prove that your God is real and theirs is not. Good luck with that. Until then, you are being hypocritical as clearly from their point of view, they are not in a position to question God either.

usual baseless assertions that have become the mainstay of the atheistic community, if it was not for beetle i would conclude that you really are collectively without any sense, as it stands, i am a Christian, do you understand, a Christian, we do not stone, enslave nor offer blood sacrifices, your senseless and now futile attempts to link the practices of the ancient Hebrews with our form or religion is a reflection of your desperation, rather than any attempt at honest debate, now i am really beginning to believe that Vishy was correct in his assertions.

Originally posted by Agerg
The quotes which follow demonstrate it is clear you venerate highly that blood sacrifice of Jesus:

1) it was a very simple and straightforward analogy me thinks, that you have chosen to ignore it is perhaps an indication of its unassailable logic, in that if it can be demonstrated that God, in his omniscient and majestic state, made contingency plans to pur ...[text shortened]... ut however you cast this action you regard it as a virtuous thing for your god to have arranged.

dig all like, construe until you are blue in the face, quote all the quotations until your heart is content, make as many straw men arguments as you desire, i have made my point clear, we take no delight in the suffering as you erroneously tried to assert, as it stands once again you have failed to honestly answer any of the points that were put to you, namely which aspects of the sacrifice of Christ that you found no virtue in. Also your futile attempts to link the ancient practices of the Hebrews with our form of worship are founded upon nothingness! I shall state it again, we are Christian.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
dig all like, construe until you are blue in the face, quote all the quotations until your heart is content, make as many straw men arguments as you desire, i have made my point clear, we take no delight in the suffering as you erroneously tried to assert, as it stands once again you have failed to honestly answer any of the points that were put to y ...[text shortened]... ith our form of worship are founded upon nothingness! I shall state it again, we are Christian.

-it was a master-stroke of pure genius, with one propitiating sacrifice he undone all that had transpired
-God, in his omniscient and majestic state, made contingency plans to purge the virus from the system
-a perfect plan, brought to fruition by a perfect being!
-thus the sacrifice that you referred to is a perfect example, for God had decreed that since Adam had disobeyed him and sought moral independence selling mankind into sin and death in the process he should suffer the consequences of his action, however, God found a way to satisfy his own standards of justice through the sacrifice of the Christ which perfectly covered all aspects of what was originally forfeited by Adam. Now humans could apply the merits of the sacrifice, Gods own standards of justice were met and the breach was healed.

Sorry Robbie but these quotes are a damning reflection of your admiration for this supposed sacrifice. They are entirely your words.

Btw...if you care to visit those threads from which you were quoted you would notice I have indeed, on more than one occasion said precisely how I find no virtue in the supposed sacrifice of Christ :]