15 Oct 07
Originally posted by ThinkOfOneI hear you say that it's "unconditional" at one turn, but in the next you spell out the conditions that are required. While it's probably comforting to believe it, Jesus seems to be saying something very different/
I hear you say that it's "unconditional" at one turn, but in the next you spell out the conditions that are required. While it's probably comforting to believe it, Jesus seems to be saying something very different. I look at what Jesus asks and am continually baffled as to why Christians don't just FOLLOW His teachings. They act like actually following hi ...[text shortened]... ETTER. It's just not the self-centered lifestyle that people are DELUDED into preferring.
But is Jesus really saying something very different, ThinkOfOne? I hear a lot of talk from you about the "teachings of Jesus", but rarely any quotes. Let's see what Jesus' teaching is... In his own words.
"Be not afraid, only believe (Mark 5:36). If thou canst believe, all things are possible to him that believeth (Mark 9:23). He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned (Mark 16:16). And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life (John 3:14-16). He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God (John 3:18). He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him (John 3:36). Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life (John 5:24). Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God? Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent (John 6:28-29). And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst (John 6:35). And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day (John 6:40). Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life (John 6:47). I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins (John 8:24). Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live (John 11:25). And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this? (John 11:26). Jesus saith unto her, Said I not unto thee, that, if thou wouldest believe, thou shouldest see the glory of God? (John 11:40). While ye have light, believe in the light, that ye may be the children of light (John 12:36). I am come a light into the world, that whosoever believeth on me should not abide in darkness. And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world. He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day (John 12:46-48). Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me (John 14:1). For the Father himself loveth you, because ye have loved me, and have believed that I came out from God (John 16:27). And many other signs truly did Jesus in the presence of his disciples, which are not written in this book: but these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name (John 20:30-31)."
(I can hear you already... "But, but, but...." Is it really so difficult to believe the Good News and rejoice? Believe in Jesus.)
15 Oct 07
Originally posted by knightmeisterYou must believe in his existence, have faith, get on a plane to Nairobi and let me know when you are there and I will give you further instructions.
I am prepared to believe you. How certain are you ? Is the offer still open to me? I am prepared to be humble and receive this million dollars , can you help me get in touch? If all I have to do is go and pick it up then that is genrous indeed!
15 Oct 07
Originally posted by epiphinehasBut is Jesus really saying something very different, ThinkOfOne? I hear a lot of talk from you about the "teachings of Jesus", but rarely any quotes. Let's see what Jesus' teaching is... In his own words. EPHIN----
[b]I hear you say that it's "unconditional" at one turn, but in the next you spell out the conditions that are required. While it's probably comforting to believe it, Jesus seems to be saying something very different/
But is Jesus really saying something very different, ThinkOfOne? I hear a lot of talk from you about the "teachings of Jesus", but ...[text shortened]... Is it really so difficult to believe the Good News and rejoice? Believe in Jesus.)[/b]
Well said , I didn't realise myself the incredible emphasis Jesus placed on belief until you provided this list .
15 Oct 07
Originally posted by Jay JoosWhy did you reject it? Did you actually understand what you were rejecting at the time? Are you really sane? Why did you change your mind? New information or did you get wiser?
I rejected Gods gift many,many times before finally accepting it,and i have never looked back since!!!!
15 Oct 07
1 edit
Matthew 25:
41"Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.'
44"They also will answer, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?'
45"He will reply, 'I tell you the truth, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.'
46"Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life."
Seems a bit conditional to me!
15 Oct 07
Originally posted by knightmeisterI understand you and agree that the gift is freely given. However I still maintain that it is not fairly given and is the equivalent of you offering me a drink and omitting to tell me that it is waiting for me on a table halfway around the world.
How so? Yes , one must accept the gift in order to receive it but it's hardly a condition in the normal sense of the word. If I offer you a free drink out of my own generosity I am offering it unconditionally , period. Whether you drink it or not is not a condition of mine at all because all I can do is place the drink in front of you , no questions asked and then persuade you to drink it.
15 Oct 07
Originally posted by pawnhandlerBut that was just a parable and so can be ignored in favor of Pauls teachings.
Matthew 25:
41"Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick ...[text shortened]... ernal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life."
Seems a bit conditional to me!
15 Oct 07
Originally posted by epiphinehasHow does one "believeth"? By saying "Lord, Lord" or by doing the good works that Jesus spoke of over and over of in the Gospels?
[b]I hear you say that it's "unconditional" at one turn, but in the next you spell out the conditions that are required. While it's probably comforting to believe it, Jesus seems to be saying something very different/
But is Jesus really saying something very different, ThinkOfOne? I hear a lot of talk from you about the "teachings of Jesus", but ...[text shortened]... Is it really so difficult to believe the Good News and rejoice? Believe in Jesus.)[/b]
15 Oct 07
Originally posted by twhiteheadI rejected it because i was scared and did not understand, by actually investigating further i found it to be rewarding!!! no i didnt understand at the time.... yes i am sane thanks!
Why did you reject it? Did you actually understand what you were rejecting at the time? Are you really sane? Why did you change your mind? New information or did you get wiser?
15 Oct 07
Originally posted by twhiteheadHowever I still maintain that it is not fairly given and is the equivalent of you offering me a drink and omitting to tell me that it is waiting for me on a table halfway around the world.---whitey-----
I understand you and agree that the gift is freely given. However I still maintain that it is not fairly given and is the equivalent of you offering me a drink and omitting to tell me that it is waiting for me on a table halfway around the world.
Surely 13 hours on a flight watching spiderman 3 is worth your salvation....
15 Oct 07
Originally posted by twhiteheadI have reason to believe such a man might exist. How about you tell me a bit more about him and why I have to go to Nairobi. Can I phone him? Is there any way to contact him at all? I have only 15% belief that he's in Nairobi , is that enough to start with? Can you ask him for me?
You must believe in his existence, have faith, get on a plane to Nairobi and let me know when you are there and I will give you further instructions.
15 Oct 07
Originally posted by knightmeisterI don't see much in the Synoptic Gospels about trusting in Jesus for your salvation; do you?
Hmmmmmmm..........both?
Or maybe it has something to do with trusting in him for your salvation? What do you think?
I am somewhat skeptical about John as it was written much later and you can already see the emergence of certain doctrines that are absent from the prior Gospels which are clearly interrelated. Thus, I tend to view Matthew, Mark and Luke as more definitive about Christ's teaching than John and certainly more so than the Paulian letters.
15 Oct 07
Originally posted by knightmeisterSo, your original unconditional gift now requires a 13 hour flight and being subjected to Spiderman III without any gurantees that the gift actually exists until I die. If that is what unconditional means to you I suggest you invest in a dictionary.
However I still maintain that it is not fairly given and is the equivalent of you offering me a drink and omitting to tell me that it is waiting for me on a table halfway around the world.---whitey-----
Surely 13 hours on a flight watching spiderman 3 is worth your salvation....
15 Oct 07
Originally posted by TheSkipperYou don't have to wait until you die and I certainly don't think Jesus is on the other side of the world. Infact he is closer to you than you might ever dare to imagine.
So, your original unconditional gift now requires a 13 hour flight and being subjected to Spiderman III without any gurantees that the gift actually exists until I die. If that is what unconditional means to you I suggest you invest in a dictionary.