10 Sep 09
2 edits
Originally posted by TerrierJackno, heaven is not just an administrative centre, (to understand its function, you must first understand the typical representation of the earthly office), as for Marx, i would never dream of abandoning my family and kids while i laboured over a thesis in the library.
So you're a radical materialist (like Marx and the mormons?) Heaven is just an administrative center? Everyone (even Hitler) is raised bodily to live out a perfect existence on this physical planet (do DC8s and nuclear bombs around volcanoes have anything to do with this? Was John Travolta 9ft tall?) Are you a divine person? (I already know Jaywill is no ...[text shortened]... there is no hell at all and we just dissolve into the ground will your time have been worth it?
It is impossible to say who shall receive a resurrection, i am not God, i cannot read a persons heart.
No they shall not live out a perfect existence unless they willingly submit to Christs reign. The scriptures indicate that many, although resurrected, shall refuse to learn righteousness.
The earth is perfectly capable of sustaining life, and has the potential to be a paradise, simply because we, are at present ruining it, is not an indication of its potential. if you can explain why, once the effects of sin are removed and mankind is restored to moral, physical and spiritual 'perfection' (this is of course relative), that this would not be possible, then be my guest.
I am as far away as a divine person as you could get, i am human, have human frailties and weaknesses like any other human.
There is no soul, which leaves the body and transcends death. death is death. we shall remain, unconscious of anything, no pain, no suffering, no sickness, awaiting the resurrection.
i am not a priest, nor a secretary, nor an administrator, i have no desire to live in heaven and cannot understand why anyone would want to. i am earthly and human.
i miss dearly the people that have been close to me and died, and cannot be bought with the empty promise that they are in heaven, as a flower in Gods garden.. i want to see them again and i have hope towards god that i shall, in the resurrection.
As for the southern baptists, they have no scriptural basis on which to base their claims of eternal torment and damnation, it is entirely outwith the character of a loving god, to torment someone for an eternity while they were in a state of imperfection and prone to making mistakes for seventy or eighty years, although , God is not one to be mocked.
To love is to live my friend, and i love the friends that i have gathered on this thin raft! it will have been worth it. Christ came to give people life, and life in full.
🙂
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10 Sep 09
OK - so I still ask, materialist? Anything apart from everyday senses (ghosties, goblins, things that do the bump-tee-bump in the wee hours of the morning?)
So (as far as you will admit to knowing) resurrection (is that restoration to a fully corporeal existence (blood cells carrying oxygen?)) is possible for anyone regardless of their beliefs?
And given resurrection and sufficient knowledge to determine the situation he woke up to then why would Hitler prefer not to be righteous?
I grok the attachment to others! You obviously want to believe in that eternity. But what about the eternity right here and now?
So again, and note this is not criticism, why the preach? Is there literally no reason to hope for better now? Must we wait for the paradise to come while refusing the medicine of love that is available without conditions to all?
To me (and you have every right to feel differently) giving up on this life by speculating about a life to come would be a betrayal of those I love (including those no longer alive) - again my father, "you do what you can do - don't worry about the rest"
10 Sep 09
1 edit
Originally posted by TerrierJackno a materialst is someone who sees no reality other than what is material. God to us is a reality. Christ to us is a reality. the promises of the bible to us are a reality. These things are spiritual and belong in the spiritual realm.
OK - so I still ask, materialist? Anything apart from everyday senses (ghosties, goblins, things that do the bump-tee-bump in the wee hours of the morning?)
So (as far as you will admit to knowing) resurrection (is that restoration to a fully corporeal existence (blood cells carrying oxygen?)) is possible for anyone regardless of their beliefs?
And ...[text shortened]... ose no longer alive) - again my father, "you do what you can do - don't worry about the rest"
Resurrection , yes, comes from the Greek, anastasis and literally means a standing up again. Whether it is possible for anyone regarding their beliefs i do not know. one must remember that there were thousands of persons who died without knowing anything about Christ, therefore , would it not seem loving and just if these were given the opportunity to learn? surely a God of love and justice would not condemn anyone while being in a state of ignorance? but yes, full physical restoration.
People are people, knowing that God exists is not a determining factor. Even the Jews of Christ time acknowledged that the 'works', were from the Father, Christ said to then, if you do not believe me, believe on account of the 'works', but they refused and plotted to kill him.
Let us not delude ourselves my friend, that the promises of a paradise to come, are vain and valueless, or that hope in the resurrection has no power, it has helped other cope with unbelievable pressure in the face of overwhelming adversity, such is its power , it itself is able to transcend even death by those who have faced it.
It seems amazing to me that you may think of us as having given up on this life. Nothing could be further from the truth. As Christ stated to the amazement of his audience more than two thousand years ago,
(Matthew 22:32) . . .He is the God, not of the dead, but of the living. . .
and Christ came that we may have life in full.
(John 15:11) “These things I have spoken to you, that my joy may be in you and your joy may be made full. . .
(John 17:13-14) . . .But now I am coming to you, and I am speaking these things in the world in order that they may have my joy in themselves to the full.
you know Peter asked Christ the very same thing, what will i get from this course of cation, here is what Christ stated, and it is beautiful for those who have experienced it.
(Mark 10:28-30) . . .Peter started to say to him: “Look! We left all things and have been following you.” Jesus said: “Truly I say to you men, No one has left house or brothers or sisters or mother or father or children or fields for my sake and for the sake of the good news who will not get a hundredfold now in this period of time, houses and brothers and sisters and mothers and children and fields, with persecutions, and in the coming system of things everlasting life.
🙂
i apologise for they Jaywill style and length of this post
11 Sep 09
Originally posted by menace71manny which ones do you know of, we could compile a list, and instead of arguing endlessly like we do about the trinity, we could explore each and every one, giving us a superlative panoramic vision of the Christ!
Good thread. Like to see all of the names applied to Jesus and there meanings. I see where Terrier Jack is coming from. Sometimes we have a pie in the sky mentality (some Christian/religious folk) when what are we doing now? Of course their is something to being earthly.
Manny
11 Sep 09
Originally posted by robbie carrobieIsaiah 9:6 - For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
manny which ones do you know of, we could compile a list, and instead of arguing endlessly like we do about the trinity, we could explore each and every one, giving us a superlative panoramic vision of the Christ!
11 Sep 09
1 edit
Originally posted by TerrierJack
OK - so I still ask, materialist? Anything apart from everyday senses (ghosties, goblins, things that do the bump-tee-bump in the wee hours of the morning?)
So (as far as you will admit to knowing) resurrection (is that restoration to a fully corporeal existence (blood cells carrying oxygen?)) is possible for anyone regardless of their beliefs?
And ...[text shortened]... ose no longer alive) - again my father, "you do what you can do - don't worry about the rest"
11 Sep 09
Originally posted by TerrierJackyou are most welcome my friend, a big thanks for having taken the time and effort to post, and the time to listen! wish you well - regards Robbie.
Thanks for answering my questions = we are not so far apart. As the Buddha said, "You and I are not different."
11 Sep 09
Originally posted by josephwso far Christ is termed
Isaiah 9:6 - For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
1.The Way
2.The Truth
3.The Life
4.The Word
5.Prince of Peace
6.Eternal Father
7.Mighty God
8.Chief agent of Life
9. The Messiah
anyone add any more?
