Jesus Feeds the Five Thousand

Originally posted by FabianFnas
You've still haven't submitted any definition about 'miracle'. So I take it as you don't have one. If you have one, and you think it is important, and you have put it down elsewhere, then you can just copy it and paste it here.

As I see it my definition stands: "The belief of miracles is a belief that the laws of universe are not absolute."

I.e. in ...[text shortened]... ever, miracles exist, then the powers of Superman can vary well be included as miracles.

http://www.redhotpawn.com/board/showthread.php?threadid=95764&page=5#post_1795144

Originally posted by Badwater
You might try reading my entire post next time. One can hope, I suppose.

I did. The miracle according to you is in the 12 disciples DISTRIBUTION of the food. You liken it to all disciples being required for Gods work. Yes we are all required for the spreading of the gospel, but if you think distribution of food and spreading of the gospel is a miracle and NOT the CREATION of abundant food from 5 loaves and 2 fishes, then you clearly dont understand what a miracle is.

Originally posted by Rajk999
I did. The miracle according to you is in the 12 disciples DISTRIBUTION of the food. You liken it to all disciples being required for Gods work. Yes we are all required for the spreading of the gospel, but if you think distribution of food and spreading of the gospel is a miracle and NOT the CREATION of abundant food from 5 loaves and 2 fishes, then you clearly dont understand what a miracle is.

http://www.redhotpawn.com/board/showthread.php?threadid=95764&page=5#post_1795144

Originally posted by Badwater
http://www.redhotpawn.com/board/showthread.php?threadid=95764&page=5#post_1795144

Thanks .. but I think I rather stick with what the Bible said about miracles. What you are doing is over-analysing things to the point of stupidity. The danger of your interpretation is that you are the one missing the point of what the Bible says.

Here is an example: You say "The importance of miracles, any miracle, is in its reflection of God

Is this passage about miracles also a reflection of God ?
Rev 16:14 For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.

Originally posted by Rajk999
Thanks .. but I think I rather stick with what the Bible said about miracles. What you are doing is over-analysing things to the point of stupidity. The danger of your interpretation is that you are the one missing the point of what the Bible says.

Here is an example: You say "The importance of miracles, any miracle, is in its reflection of God
...[text shortened]... th and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty. [/i]

The miracle is that as many times as this story has been told about every religious figure who has ever existed (an some who never did) each group hearing it considers it unique to their history and supportive of their narrow-minded conclusions. It could be all anyone ever wanted to convey with this tale is that there is enough for everyone if we are all willing to share. (Of course, that will never happen.)

Originally posted by TerrierJack
...there is enough for everyone if we are all willing to share. (Of course, that will never happen.)

Quite correct. Never has on this earth and never will.

Originally posted by Rajk999
Thanks .. but I think I rather stick with what the Bible said about miracles.... [/i]

That's fine and dandy, except the Bible doesn't say anything about miracles at all. There's nothing that explains the nature of miracles, the common knowledge of the reader of the time. The knowledge that you so glaringly lack.

For that I used a Hindu story, one that does explain miracles very nicely.

The passage you give from Revelations describes nothing about miracles. Mentioning miracles isn't the same.

Sadly, the meaning of the feeding passage is lost on you. That's ok, it is after all your loss and not mine.

Originally posted by Badwater
http://www.redhotpawn.com/board/showthread.php?threadid=95764&page=5#post_1795144

I see plenty of words, some describing what miracles are not, some philosophical interpretations, and a lot of other things that is off topic, but I don't see any definition. So I take it as my own definition stands.

Miracles is a violation of the laws of nature.

Originally posted by FabianFnas
.... So I take it as my own definition stands.

Miracles is a violation of the laws of nature.

That was the definition you were going to go by regardless; it was a foregone conclusion.

Your inability to see a different understanding and context from your own is to your detriment and no one else's. Understanding is not equivalent to agreeing or condoning. Your determination to not understand, in this context, belies your fears and your tunnel-vision, which is as great as the fundamentalist believers which you repeatedly berate.

Originally posted by Badwater
That's fine and dandy, except the Bible doesn't say anything about miracles at all. There's nothing that explains the nature of miracles, the common knowledge of the reader of the time. The knowledge that you so glaringly lack.

For that I used a Hindu story, one that does explain miracles very nicely.

The passage you give from Revelations describes no ...[text shortened]... g of the feeding passage is lost on you. That's ok, it is after all your loss and not mine.

You are being very immature. Rajk just explained why he things your exegesis is errant. You don't try to refute him. You just say 'Clearly you didn't read my post'. I have given three reasons why I think your interpretation is wrong but all I get in return is condescension.

Originally posted by TerrierJack
The miracle is that as many times as this story has been told about every religious figure who has ever existed (an some who never did) each group hearing it considers it unique to their history and supportive of their narrow-minded conclusions. It could be all anyone ever wanted to convey with this tale is that there is enough for everyone if we are all willing to share. (Of course, that will never happen.)

This story has been said about every religious figure who has ever existed?

Originally posted by Badwater
That's fine and dandy, except the Bible doesn't say anything about miracles at all. There's nothing that explains the nature of miracles, the common knowledge of the reader of the time. The knowledge that you so glaringly lack.

For that I used a Hindu story, one that does explain miracles very nicely.

The passage you give from Revelations describes no ...[text shortened]... g of the feeding passage is lost on you. That's ok, it is after all your loss and not mine.

You concluded that .. "The importance of miracles, any miracle, is in its reflection of God "

Revelation speaks of devils working miracles.

The question is are these miracles by devils a reflection of God as you claim?

This simple question destroys your conclusion. Otherwise please respond to it. Thanks.

Originally posted by Conrau K
This story has been said about every religious figure who has ever existed?

OK - I'm prone to hyperbole. Not every religious figure has performed that particular act - but many have. Utnapishtim loaded an ark long before it was reported by the tribe of Israelites, Apollonius healed the sick, Muhammad ascended into heaven, Bacchus poured from an endless wine jug, and Gautama fed the multitudes. Nothing is new - not even our bottomless capacity for self-deception.

Originally posted by Rajk999
You concluded that .. "The importance of miracles, any miracle, is in its reflection of God "

Revelation speaks of devils working miracles.

[b]The question is are these miracles by devils a reflection of God as you claim?

This simple question destroys your conclusion. Otherwise please respond to it. Thanks.[/b]

No, Revelation does not speak of that. What you have done is to pull a single verse from scripture and use it to fit your context and not the passage's context.

NRSV Revelation 16: 12-16

The sixth angel poured his bowl on the great river Euphrates, and its water was dried up in order to prepare the way for the kings from the east. And I saw three foul spirits like frogs coming from the mouth of the dragon, from the mouth of the beast, and from the mouth of the false prophet. These are demonic spirits, performing signs, who go abroad to the kings of the whole world, to assemble them for battle on the great day of God the Almighty. (‘See, I am coming like a thief! Blessed is the one who stays awake and is clothed, not going about naked and exposed to shame.&rsquo😉 And they assembled them at the place that in Hebrew is called Harmagedon.

Your attempt at interpretation here is fatally flawed.