02 Sep 07
Originally posted by epiphinehasDespite Mr. Manning's inability to count to one, his proposition is absurd. If faced with this lugubrious and thoroughly dishonest question (after all, "Jesus" already knows the answer, does he not?), I would answer "no". For this, I am to be tortured and cast in to the fires of hell, whereas a child rapist or genocidal lunatic (such as the Jesus-freak that shot up VaTech) who answers "yes" thereby enters paradise?
Brennan was clearly elaborating, not actually asking four separate questions.
02 Sep 07
Originally posted by David CWhy would you answer no?
Despite Mr. Manning's inability to count to one, his proposition is absurd. If faced with this lugubrious and thoroughly dishonest question (after all, "Jesus" already knows the answer, does he not?), I would answer "no". For this, I am to be tortured and cast in to the fires of hell, whereas a child rapist or genocidal lunatic (such as the Jesus-freak that shot up VaTech) who answers "yes" thereby enters paradise?
02 Sep 07
3 edits
Originally posted by David CThanks for your honesty.
Quite simple, really. I do not believe in "Jesus".
God is love. If you believed in Jesus, then you would believe that He loves you. If you believed that He loves you, then you would be filled with His love. After being filled with His love, then you would give that love away to others. By giving Christ's love away to others, you would be fulfilling God's law. It all starts with a genuine belief that God loves you.
Intellectual proofs will never suffice to bring you into God's kingdom. The only true witness for Christ is God's love. It is only God's love which truly converts people. Therefore, you need an experience of God's love.
Regardless of what you've done, God loves you and wants to pour His love into your heart (i.e. His Holy Spirit). Abandon your doubts and believe!
02 Sep 07
Originally posted by epiphinehasthe bible says in 1John 4:7-8 (paraphrased )that whoever loves, knows God, for God is love. If Christ is in fact God, or one of the faces of God, then whoever loves knows Christ. The current movement by evangelical Christians is contrary to the teachings of Christ himself. Yes Jesus was Crazy, at least by standards then and now. He calls us not omly to personal holiness, but social holiness. This does not mean burnung down abortion clinics, or scaring women from even going in. This does not mean marginalizing gays, and preventing them from enjoying the same rights in society. It means creating a society which sees poverty as the source of societal ills. It is a society where justice is equal and for everyone. It is a society where the least among us are considered as equal value to those in high places. The current teachings of most Christian churches are incompatable with the teachings of Christ.
Thanks for your honesty.
God is love. If you believed in Jesus, then you would believe that He loves you. If you believed that He loves you, then you would be filled with His love. After being filled with His love, then you would give that love away to others. By giving Christ's love away to others, you would be fulfilling God's law. It all start ...[text shortened]... to pour His love into your heart (i.e. His Holy Spirit). Abandon your doubts and believe!
02 Sep 07
Originally posted by duecerRefreshing words my friend. Amen.
the bible says in 1John 4:7-8 (paraphrased )that whoever loves, knows God, for God is love. If Christ is in fact God, or one of the faces of God, then whoever loves knows Christ. The current movement by evangelical Christians is contrary to the teachings of Christ himself. Yes Jesus was Crazy, at least by standards then and now. He calls us not omly to person ...[text shortened]... The current teachings of most Christian churches are incompatable with the teachings of Christ.
03 Sep 07
Originally posted by duecerIf Christ is in fact God, or one of the faces of God, then whoever loves knows Christ.
the bible says in 1John 4:7-8 (paraphrased )that whoever loves, knows God, for God is love. If Christ is in fact God, or one of the faces of God, then whoever loves knows Christ. The current movement by evangelical Christians is contrary to the teachings of Christ himself. Yes Jesus was Crazy, at least by standards then and now. He calls us not omly to person ...[text shortened]... The current teachings of most Christian churches are incompatable with the teachings of Christ.
It depends on what kind of 'love' you are talking about. The 'love' which God is, the gift He imparts to believers, is the Holy Spirit. The gift of the Holy Spirit is given specifically to those who 'repent', 'turn to God' and who are 'baptized in the name of Jesus Christ.'
"Peter replied, “Each of you must repent of your sins and turn to God, and be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. Then you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit" (Acts 2:38).
Furthermore, Jesus Christ is the only 'face of God'. People are saved by no other name than, Jesus Christ. Period.
"For Jesus is the one referred to in the Scriptures, where it says, ‘The stone that you builders rejected has now become the cornerstone.’ There is salvation in no one else! God has given no other name under heaven by which we must be saved" (Acts 4:11-12).
The current teachings of most Christian churches are incompatible with the teachings of Christ.
Far be it from me to defend the evangelical churches which you are lambasting, with whom I have no affiliation. Are you using my post as a springboard for generalizing, or have I given you some indication that I advocate bombing abortion clinics, or ignoring the poor, etc.?
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I understand that your views spring from the 'liberal' wing of modern Christianity, where social activism is a religion in itself. The 'conservative' wing of the modern Christian church is more concerned with 'right belief' and 'sin management'. There is some truth embodied in both sides, but, as Dallas Willard points out, neither effects a real change in the lives of believers.
This would be a great subject for a new thread. I'll look into starting one. Thanks!
05 Sep 07
Originally posted by knightmeister😵
I bet you have a need to be loved unconditionally though.
...and? My family and friends more than suffice, even if some of them love me "conditionally".
Why do you feel the need to pretend there is an invisible Sky Fairy that loves you "unconditionally"? Well, except for that little condition that you believe in "Jesus"...otherwise you are unsaved and will burn in Hell for all eternity. Did you forget about that condition?
06 Sep 07
Originally posted by David CI'm glad God has suurounded you with people who can mirror his love to you but I doubt they can love you in the way God can. He places no conditions on him loving you. Even if you choose against him he will still love you but he would prefer you didn't. In Jesus he's saying here I am if you want me come and stand in the living waters. This is hardly a condition. Is a parent who says come over here and keep warm next to this fire being conditional or just stating the way it is.
😵
...and? My family and friends more than suffice, even if some of them love me "conditionally".
Why do you feel the need to pretend there is an invisible Sky Fairy that loves you "unconditionally"? Well, except for that little condition that you believe in "Jesus"...otherwise you are unsaved and will burn in Hell for all eternity. Did you forget about that condition?