Originally posted by KingOnPointI submit that the OT and NT are cohesive. Take Rahab the harlot in the OT. She had faith in God and protected the spies sent by Israel into the city of Jerico She was spared and later was included into the lineage of Jesus.
The Law of God given to Israel was the standard for an Israelite to do and live by. However, what sinner has ever kept the whole Law of God?
The law of Christ is done out of obedience by a person who is already saved. The law of Christ does not provide eternal life by keeping it. A Christian is given eternal life already, then the Christian is to g ...[text shortened]... following:
[b]The Law of God and the law of Christ are 2 different sets of commandments.[\b]
Take also the theif on the cross dying beside Jesus. He placed his faith in Jesus and was likewise spared.
Both examples show men and women who led lives of sin, only to place their faith in God and be spared. This makes sense to me. If God is all knowing and all good, then placing your faith in him is simply choosing to do what is good. Faith in God is believing that God knows what is best and what is good. It then no longer is your righteousness, but God's.
Whodey,
Rahab was spared human death by Israel. However, and perhaps, the rest of Jericho were killed. They did not receive mercy or grace from God to stay alive. If Rahab followed the Law of God, I would not be surprised if she is with God now. However, much of the world was not given the Law of God to keep and live. Some of the world was even to be killed by Israel without telling them to follow the Law of God and live. The Law of God was given to Israel and not the rest of the world based on the bible.
God did not offer grace before Christ as much as He did after Christ. Christ's sacrifice changed God's relating to the whole world. He provided salvation for all people and not just Israel.
I don't disagree that the OT and the NT are cohesive. But God did relate to the whole world, and not just Israel, after Christ. Israel as a whole rejected Christ. Fortunately, their rejection led God to offer salvation to the Gentiles too. Grace and Truth came by Jesus Christ.
King James Version
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John 1: 17
For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.
Whodey,
One more thing. . .
Doing good is done because of obedience, but not because we will be saved by doing good.
Christians are to do good because they are saved. They don't do good in order to be saved.
Even in the Old Testament God knew who would send Christ to die for Israel.
I would say to you. In the Old Testament, people were to believe God for their salvation, not the Law.
In the New Testament, people are to put faith in Christ for salvation, not the commandments.
In both cases, putting belief in God and the Son of God are the keys, not the commandments that they both gave or taught. Doing good is necessary, but in the New Testament is doesn't bring eternal life. Christ brings eternal life. Doing good now is to please God and be like Him. We can't earn eternal life by being God. Again, the Keys are God and the Son of God, not the commandments.
Have you read in Romans why God gave the Law to Israel?
Whodey and All Others,
My error is below in my post to Whodey. . .
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We can't earn eternal life by being God. Again, the Keys are God and the Son of God, not the commandments.
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I want to correct my sentence to say. . .
We can't earn eternal life by being "good."
Again, the Keys are God and the Son of God, not the commandments.
Whodey,
That is what I wish that RajK and ThinkOfOne would understand. That any righteousness that they have is not by them doing good, but by putting faith in Jesus Christ through which believers are made heirs of God.
It is Christ's righteousness that is applied to their accounts, and not there keeping of commandments that save them. Christ is the Savior Himself, not the good works. Salvation is a gift and not earned.
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People can become obsessed with what will get them eternal life and whether they have attained it. For some, it seems that the fear of being unsaved, or becoming unsaved in the future, always lurks around the corner. People go through remarkable mental gyrations to set this aside for themselves, but it seems always to come out, like a moth to the flame, as a seeming attempt to shake the confidence of someone who believes differently than themselves. Each wants to be tucked in with a comforting and sturdy confidence that they are on the right track.
We see it here with reminders from one side to the other, tirelessly restarting threads on a few favorite differences between convictions, or steering threads into a rehash of those differences. I can't help but think that some here who project an attitude of certainty that their particular beliefs are both correct and essential to salvation, have had moments of fear that they might be wrong, and their unfailing revisit to the issues is how they prevent this fear from returning.
JS357,
It may also be true that people who believe in Christ for their salvation want to warn others.
Human example can be a father who warns his son or daughter to look both ways before crossing a street so that a car will not hurt them or kill them. If the child doesn't believe that he or she needs to look, the child can still be hurt or killed. That is the way human life is. It doesn't take the child to believe he or she will be hurt or killed.
A woman may tell her dog over and over stop when it gets to the street, but the dog can still remain ignorant that he may be hurt or killed. My cousin's dog, I guess, was run over by one car 2 times. The dog had a broken leg only, I guess.
In eternal life though, humans eternities need to be secured. Souls are more important that animals. The need to repeat one's self can be to help others depend on Christ rather than good works.
Believing what is wrong can cost the unbeliever his or her soul. That is more important for the others sakes.
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Originally posted by KingOnPointThe sincere desire to warn others is certainly a motivation. I think that religious people can learn how to best do this, in ways that minimize defensiveness and maximize the effectiveness of their mission. This takes them into study of psychology, simply put, on how to influence people toward, not away from, their message.
JS357,
It may also be true that people who believe in Christ for their salvation want to warn others.
Human example can be a father who warns his son or daughter to look both ways before crossing a street so that a car will not hurt them or kill them. If the child doesn't believe that he or she needs to look, the child can still be hurt or killed. ...[text shortened]... is wrong can cost the unbeliever his or her soul. That is more important for the others sakes.
After a while it becomes easy to tell if someone here really has that as their motivation.
Edit: I will add too, that the belief that one's warnings are of infinite importance can be and has been used to justify some pretty bad behavior.
Originally posted by KingOnPointHow then do you explain Jonah being sent into the Gentile city of Ninevah? Jonah was reluctant to ask them to repent because he hated them for the way they treated the Israelites and wanted God to destroy them like Sodom. However, after being swallowed by a fish Jonah seemed to have a change of heart and the city later repented much to his distaste.
[b]Whodey,
Some of the world was even to be killed by Israel without telling them to follow the Law of God and live. The Law of God was given to Israel and not the rest of the world based on the bible.
How do you explain this?
JS357,
It would be good to understand man's ways to reach everyone individually unto salvation in Christ. The failing human ways of the saved Christian can get in the way of properly representing Christ.
I don't believe that learning to be perfect is necessary, however, maturity and wisdom is useful. The first goal is to be like Christ in righteousness more so than education in humanity.
However, even Paul claimed:
King James Version
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I Corinthians 9: 19-23
For though I be free from all men, yet have I made myself servant unto all, that I might gain the more.
And unto the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might gain the Jews; to them that are under the law, as under the law, that I might gain them that are under the law;
To them that are without law, as without law, (being not without law to God, but under the law to Christ,) that I might gain them that are without law.
To the weak became I as weak, that I might gain the weak: I am made all things to all men, that I might by all means save some.
And this I do for the gospel's sake,