Let's say there is no Christ (part two)

Where did Jesus claim to be God?

In Matthew 12:6, Jesus says to the Pharisees, "I say to you, that something greater than the Temple is here." How much greater? Look at verse 8. Referring to Himself, Jesus asserts, "The Son of Man is Lord of the Sabbath." How can anyone be Lord of the Sabbath except God who instituted it? This is a direct claim to deity.

In Matthew 23:37, Jesus speaks as though He has personally observed the whole history of Jerusalem:

0 Jerusalem, Jerusalem, who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, the way a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were unwilling.

In Mark 2:1,2, Jesus tells a paralyzed man, "My son, your sins are forgiven." Some scribes sitting there caught the obvious intent of Jesus' words and reasoned:

Why does this man speak in this way? He is blaspheming; who can forgive sins but God alone?

Jesus challenged them:

Which is easier, to say to the paralytic, "Your sins are forgiven"; or to say, "Arise, and take up your pallet and walk"? But in order that you may know that the Son of Man has authority on earth to forgive sins ...

And then Jesus healed the paralytic. The implication was obvious. No one forgives sin but God. Anyone could say he is able to forgive sin; but Jesus proved He had the authority to forgive sin when He healed the paralytic. Jesus was clearly claiming deity for Himself.

Back again in Matthew, at the end of the Sermon on the Mount (7:21-23), Jesus speaks of Himself as the ultimate judge who will have authority to deny entrance into the kingdom of heaven.

In the next paragraph, rather than say, "Everyone who hears the words of God or Torah will lay a strong foundation for their lives," Jesus states, "Everyone who hears these words of mine . . . "

David Biven, a researcher of the Hebraic background of the Gospel accounts, concludes:

"It was not the way He taught or even the general content of His teaching that made Jesus unique among the rabbis. What was unique about Jesus was who He claimed to be, and He rarely ever taught without claiming to be not only God's Messiah, but more startlingly, Immanuel, "God with us.""

It is surprising how critics try to reject Jesus' constant references to Himself as deity. Ian Wilson, for example, writes:

"In the Mark Gospel, the most consistent in conveying Jesus' humanity, a man is represented as running up to Jesus and addressing Him with the words "Good Master." Jesus' response is a firm rebuke: "Why do you call me good? No one is good but God alone" (Mark 10:18)."

Wilson's interpretation is 180 degrees in the wrong direction. Seen within the context of the situation, Jesus is using obvious irony. In essence, He is arguing: (1) If no one is good but God alone, and (2) if I am good, then (3) I must be God.

Often Jesus receives worship and does nothing to discourage it (see Matthew 14:33, John 9:38). You would think the one who severely rebukes Peter for trying to keep Him from God's will of being crucified would also severely rebuke someone offering worship to Him [which rightly ought to be given only to the one true living God.] The Apostle Paul severely reacted against being deified at Lystra (Acts 14:8-18). How much more should Jesus have reacted if He were only a mere man? Did He not quote Deuteronomy 6:13 to Satan during His temptation, "You shall worship the Lord your God, and serve Him only"?

One notable occurrence of Jesus accepting worship is in Matthew 21:15,16. Children cried out, "Hosanna to the Son of David," in praise to Jesus. "Hosanna" is used here as a cry of adoration, but some critics insist on interpreting "Hosanna" in a stiffly literal sense, rendering the statement "Save us Son of David."

This interpretation cannot be accurate, though, because (1) it would actually then read: "Save us to the Son of David," which makes little or no sense; (2) the chief priests and scribes who saw Jesus receiving the praise "became indignant and said to Him, 'Do you hear what these are saying?' " as though Jesus should have silenced the crowd (something He would be expected to do only if the crowd were worshipping Him); and most important, (3) Jesus replied by attributing to Himself something which was meant for God alone. He asked the chief priests and scribes, "Have you never read, 'Out of the mouth of infants and nursing babes Thou [God] hast prepared praise for Thyself [God]'?"

Did you catch what Jesus said? Basically it was, "When those children praise me, they are praising God."

Of all the Gospel writers, John most clearly perceived the cues Jesus gave about His identity. For his effort to report those cues, he has been the most criticized Gospel writer of all, allegedly falling under Hellenistic influence. Scholars today, however, have begun to realize the inaccuracy of this charge. In John 8:58, when Jesus proclaimed to a Jewish crowd, "Truly, truly I say to you, before Abraham was born, I Am," He was claiming two aspects of deity for Himself; the eternal existence of God and the name of God.

Jesus was referring His listeners back to Exodus 3:13,14 where Moses tells God:

Behold, I am going to the sons of Israel, and I shall say to them, "The God of your fathers has sent me to you." Now they may say to me, "What is His name?" What shall I say to them?

God answered Moses,

I AM WHO I AM ... Thus you shall say to the sons of Israel, "I AM has sent me to you."

Any Jewish person would have heard Jesus' claim to deity loud and clear. That is why the very next verse in John's account states: "Therefore they picked up stones to throw at Him" (John 8:59).

In all, Jesus uses the term "I am" (Gr. Ego eimi) more than nineteen times in reference to Himself in the Gospel according to John. Often it is used to make claims about Himself that normally would be thought appropriate only for God. For example,

I am the bread of life, he who comes to Me shall not hunger, and he who believes in Me shall never thirst (6:35);

I am the light of the world; he who follows Me shall not walk in the darkness, but shall have the light of life (8:12);

Unless you believe that I am He, you shall die in your sins (8:24);

I am the good shepherd (10:11-14) [cf. Psalm 23:1: "The LORD is my shepherd"];

I am the resurrection, and the life; He who believes in Me shall live even if he dies (11:25).

Other Scriptures on this subject include John 4:26; 6:41,48,51; 8:18, 28,58; 10:7,9; 13:19; 14:6; and 15:1.)

Earlier, in John 5:17, Jesus claimed to be continuing the work of the Father. He also called God "My Father." In John 10:28-30 Jesus again called God "My Father." He also claimed at one time to be the giver of eternal life and at another time to be one with the Father. On both those occasions, the Jewish crowds picked up stones to stone Him because, as they put it, "You, being a man, make Yourself out to be God" (John 10:33; cf. 5:18).

In John 14:6, Jesus did not just claim to be teaching mankind the truth; He claimed that He was the truth. In John 14:9, Jesus admonished Philip, "He who has seen Me has seen the Father." In Isaiah 42:8, God said, "I am the LORD, that is My name; I will not give My glory to another." But in John 17:5, Jesus prayed, "And now, glorify Thou Me together with Thyself, Father, with the glory which I ever had with Thee before the world was."

In John 5:19ff., Jesus delivers a long monologue in which He makes repeated claims to be on the same level of authority as God the Father.

"Even in His parables," says Norman Geisler, "Jesus claimed functions reserved only for Yahweh in the Old Testament, such as being Shepherd (Luke 15), Rock (Matthew 7:24-27), and Sower (Matthew 13:24-30)." 31/14

C. S. Lewis, in his book Mere Christianity, puts all these claims in the right perspective when he reminds his readers that Jesus was a Jew among Jews:

"Among these Jews there suddenly turns up a man who goes about talking as if He was God. He claims to forgive sins. He says He has always existed. He says He is coming to judge the world at the end of time. Now let us get this clear. Among pantheists, like the Indians, anyone might say that he was a part of God, or one with God: there would be nothing very odd about it. But this man, since He was a Jew, could not mean that kind of God. God, in their language, meant the Being outside the world who had made it and was infinitely different from anything else. And when you have grasped that, you will see that what this man said was, quite simply, the most shocking thing that has ever been uttered by human lips."

The question is, can we accept as true what Jesus [God the Son], claimed? The most conclusive evidence establishing the deity of Christ is the historically verifiable resurrection. The apostle Paul wrote that Jesus "was declared with power to be the Son of God by the resurrection from the dead." (Romans 1:4) If the resurrection of Christ is true, then it is possible and, indeed, logical to believe all His claims and miracles including His assertion of the complete validity of the Old Testament. They would be what one would expect from God.

The primary reason that Jesus is the only way to God is that He forgives sin and offers eternal life, (John 10:28) something that the founder of no other major religion has claimed to do. Think about that!

Every person is separated from a perfect, holy God by sin. According to God’s requirement, either the individual must pay the penalty for sin – death – or he must find someone who is willing and able – who has no sin – to pay the penalty for him. (Hebrews 9:14, 22) Jesus Christ was both able and willing to do this, as demonstrated by His death on the cross. That is why Jesus is the only way to God.

Originally posted by apathist

Where did Jesus claim to be God?

In Matthew 12:6, Jesus says to the Pharisees, "I say to you, that something greater than the Temple is here." How much greater? Look at verse 8. Referring to Himself, Jesus asserts, "The Son of Man is Lord of the Sabbath." How can anyone be Lord of the Sabbath except God who instituted it? This is a direct ...[text shortened]... to God.

Looks like apathist knows how to cut and paste. In due time he may even learn to give credit to his sources. One can only hope that he also learn how to distinguish between a good source and a poor one.

Originally posted by apathist
Jesus, have you not heard of the trinity.

I take it you've decided to go for the ultimate evasion - not acknowledging a post at all, no less not addressing the germane points.

From the post in question which speaks to your question:
"You seem to be having difficulty with extricating the teachings of Jesus from the mythology built around Jesus, i.e., Christianity."

Originally posted by apathist
Jesus, have you not heard of the trinity.

And Jesus came and spoke to them, saying, “All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.” Amen.

(Matthew 28:18-20 NKJV)

Looks like Jesus was very aware of the Trinity of God to me.

Originally posted by apathist

Where did Jesus claim to be God?

In Matthew 12:6, Jesus says to the Pharisees, "I say to you, that something greater than the Temple is here." How much greater? Look at verse 8. Referring to Himself, Jesus asserts, "The Son of Man is Lord of the Sabbath." How can anyone be Lord of the Sabbath except God who instituted it? This is a direc ...[text shortened]... to God.

One remarkable shot! Pleased you're, also, acquainted with C.S. Lewis'

enlightling work. If I may ask, when did you read "Mere Christianity"?
-

Originally posted by ThinkOfOne

Looks like apathist knows how to cut and paste. In due time he may even learn to give credit to his sources. One can only hope that he also learn how to distinguish between a good source and a poor one.

Gratuitous, ThinkoOne. Gratuitous.

What are you possibly thinking?
-

Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
Looks like apathist knows how to cut and paste. In due time he may even learn to give credit to his sources.

My bad. You win a point!

One can only hope that he also learn how to distinguish between a good source and a poor one.

I cited the Bible. Apparently you find that to be a poor source.

Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
I take it you've decided to go for the ultimate evasion - not acknowledging a post at all, no less not addressing the germane points.

From the post in question which speaks to your question:
"You seem to be having difficulty with extricating the teachings of Jesus from the mythology built around Jesus, i.e., Christianity."

Let's be clear. We both like the sweet Jesus. I'm on record there. But neither of us likes the Bible. Have I over-stepped?

Originally posted by Grampy Bobby

You've taught me to skip over your opinions.

Originally posted by apathist

Let's be clear. We both like the sweet Jesus. I'm on record there. But neither of us likes the Bible. Have I over-stepped?

Why then, pray tell, would you possibly be motivated to quote from it quite so extensively?

No, Jesus is not God, nor did Jesus claim to be.

Jesus is not our Lord and Savior?

I know you like to play simple games. That is all your camp has.

Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
Why then, pray tell, would you possibly be motivated to quote from it quite so extensively?

It was so easy. Your entire world-view. It makes less than zero sense. Keep speaking Bobby, make my already-made case even more clear.

Originally posted by apathist

It was so easy. Your entire world-view. It makes less than zero sense. Keep speaking Bobby, make my already-made case even more clear.

How very sad. Perhaps you should wear Dark Brown Pants, too.