Lost cause

Originally posted by whodey
LOL. I thought I as the only one who thought this about Eastern thought. Where exactly is it all going? It like psychoanalyzing your self and the universe into nonexistence!! As for myself, the love message is what captivates me about Christianity. Love is really all that matters to me and to everyone else yet so much other crap seems to occupy our time ...[text shortened]... of Christiandom in these other wortheless pursuits as well.

So meditate on that Spanky!! 😛

So my dear whodey would you really like to know "where exactly the Eastern thought is going", erhhhh? This is a question easily answered, but since you appear to ignore this specific answer it seems to me that you ignore too what you know not and at the same time you still have the delusion that you actually know what in fact you know not. And of course it is easier for you to avoid meditatation over this, and thus here you are, advertising your religion and following somebody else's footprints😵

So what exactly do you know regarding the so called "Eastern thought" and what are exactly the philosophic systems that you studied in detail and then you rejected them as meaningless thanks to your solif refutation, which it sprung from your personal fruitful meditation, analysis and evaluation?

Furthermore, how did you came to conclude that all the miscellaneous systems that you describe in general as "Eastern thought" they are "...like psychoanalyzing your self and the universe into nonexistence!"?
😵

Originally posted by sumydid
You are NOT a lost cause with respect to this. Here's the answer to your question:

The meaning of the words, even the feeling you get when you hear them and read them, is by design and intentional. You will not understand, or even enjoy the Word until Christ decides otherwise. Now, I don't know of any "formula" for you to follow that would provoke Chri ...[text shortened]... to you. I would advise that you just keep your interest level up and listen closely.

The meaning of the words, even the feeling you get when you hear them and read them, is by design and intentional. You will not understand, or even enjoy the Word until Christ decides otherwise...That's probably not very pleasant to hear but that's been my experience and Jesus did say to the disciples that it was intentional on His part to hide the message from certain individuals so that no matter what they did, they could not understand, nor would they even want to understand.

The good news is, it's never too late as long as you're alive. I don't think you should put a lot of pressure on yourself because ultimately it's not up to you.

Can you cite passages where Jesus states this?

Originally posted by twhitehead
There is no God. Everybody knows it. I am sure that deep down you know that I am right. You are just so scared of death that you cannot face it. You are so scared that you will die that you hold on to your beliefs even to the extent of denying the existence of atheists as even the slightest doubt by anyone might pop your bubble.

Do you see where such r ...[text shortened]... I do not believe that there is a creator nor do I have even the slightest doubt on the matter.

"I cannot prove it to you, but you have my word that I do not believe that there is a creator nor do I have even the slightest doubt on the matter."

If you can't prove it, then how can you be so sure?


"You are just so scared of death that you cannot face it."

I'm not going to face death. Sure, this body will die, but will I face death? No.


I'm well aware of the absurdity of this forum. Can you imagine how often this debate occurs everyday, everywhere?

Originally posted by whodey
LOL. I thought I as the only one who thought this about Eastern thought. Where exactly is it all going? It like psychoanalyzing your self and the universe into nonexistence!! As for myself, the love message is what captivates me about Christianity. Love is really all that matters to me and to everyone else yet so much other crap seems to occupy our time ...[text shortened]... of Christiandom in these other wortheless pursuits as well.

So meditate on that Spanky!! 😛

I'm not feeling much love from your post dear Whodey. Not to say you dont love but its hard for me to believe it is the unconditional kind from your post.
I guess if love was all that really mattered to you you wouldn't worry whether people lacked faith in christianity,(as is implied in your post).

Different people are at different stages of their spiritual evolution . So if God is Love,as many have put it,then what you define as 'crap'? How is the Op's struggle with this issue not an issue that relates to Love?

Anyway in the interest of me developping my own unconditional love I will give you a chance to restate or clarify your position.

Originally posted by josephw
If you can't prove it, then how can you be so sure?

I suspect you misunderstood what I said. I said I couldn't prove to you what I believe ie I cannot prove what my innermost thoughts are. Am I sure what my thoughts are - I think so 🙂

I'm well aware of the absurdity of this forum. Can you imagine how often this debate occurs everyday, everywhere?
No, actually I don't know how often this debate occurs. I sure hope there aren't too many people in this world who believe that everyone believes in a creator.

Originally posted by josephw
So what you're saying is you don't want to live forever.

There is a creator. Everybody knows it. Only God can create something from nothing. And only God can give you the gift of eternal life.

The Bible is not a myth or a fable. Contrary to popular belief. In truth, the Bible contains the only truly reasonable explanation for our condition. And existen ...[text shortened]... uld mean we would be accountable to Him. And that just goes against the grain.

Doesn't it?

Excuse me for saying but I disagree with everyone of your points here.
(Maybe I can loosely agree with 'there is a creator' ,but I wouldn't put it like that.)
I'm not going to get too stuck into you though as Twitehead has already hightlighted some glaring problems with your point.However if you want me to furthur argue , you simply need to ask.🙂

Originally posted by josephw
[b]"I cannot prove it to you, but you have my word that I do not believe that there is a creator nor do I have even the slightest doubt on the matter."

If you can't prove it, then how can you be so sure?


"You are just so scared of death that you cannot face it."

I'm not going to face death. Sure, this body will die, but will I face deat ...[text shortened]... surdity of this forum. Can you imagine how often this debate occurs everyday, everywhere?[/b]

So you will not face death,eh?
Again , I could not go past this lofty claim without asking for furthur clarification. I mean how can you claim such a thing without some sort explanation as to how will you not die ?(ie. obviously you dont identify with your physical body , which is good, but how about the death of your ego? Or have you already 'died unto yourself'? please explain?)

Originally posted by buckky
I have. I like Eastern thought, but I question where it's all going in the end. I was envoled with meditation for many years. I still know nothing.

The bodhisattva learns to dwell without thought-coverings.

Originally posted by karoly aczel
I'm not feeling much love from your post dear Whodey. Not to say you dont love but its hard for me to believe it is the unconditional kind from your post.
I guess if love was all that really mattered to you you wouldn't worry whether people lacked faith in christianity,(as is implied in your post).

Different people are at different stages of their s ing my own unconditional love I will give you a chance to restate or clarify your position.

The number one law of my religion is to love the Lord with all your heart and soul and mind and to love your neighbor as yourself. If you then keep this law, you will by defualt keep the rest of the law....or so said Christ. So when I show disdain for those who reject this creed I suppose this is where my love sounds unconditional to you. How can one reject the source of love or not love their neighbor as their self and say that they embrace love in its totatlity? Of course, we all fall short at one time or another. This is why Christ came and said that he came not to condemn man for their sins but to convict them unto repentance so they can then walk in love instead of continuing to be at war with it.

Edit: Have you read the teachings of Christ? If so, do you feel the love from his teachings?

Originally posted by TerrierJack
The bodhisattva learns to dwell without thought-coverings.

Who said anything about thought coverings?

Originally posted by black beetle
So my dear whodey would you really like to know "where exactly the Eastern thought is going", erhhhh? This is a question easily answered, but since you appear to ignore this specific answer it seems to me that you ignore too what you know not and at the same time you still have the delusion that you actually know what in fact you know not. And of course " they are "...like psychoanalyzing your self and the universe into nonexistence!"?
😵

Don't get me wrong, I think that there is a great deal of wisdom in Eastern thought. In fact, I enjoy reading some of it, however, does it dig down to where the flesh meets the bone? Does it give us the fulfillment/answeres/love that we crave? That is why love rules as intellect trails a distant second. In other words, I don't diss people who meditate and seek wisdom, rather, I just don't understand it being the driving force in our lives.

Originally posted by whodey
Don't get me wrong, I think that there is a great deal of wisdom in Eastern thought. In fact, I enjoy reading some of it, however, does it dig down to where the flesh meets the bone? Does it give us the fulfillment/answeres/love that we crave? That is why love rules as intellect trails a distant second. In other words, I don't diss people who meditate and seek wisdom, rather, I just don't understand it being the driving force in our lives.

There are specific philosophic systems (Yogacara, Dzogchen etc) that they offer concrete solutions regarding the relation of the Human with his inner worlld, with the physical world and with the society, which they do "dig down to where the flesh meets the bone". Meditation does not aim to the so called "wisdom" per se although "wisdom" is a product of the meditation alright; meditation is used in order to help the Human to get to know her/ himself, to enable her/ him understand that s/he is fully responsible for her/ his thoughts, decisions and actions, to enable her/ him to interprate accurately the nature of our physical world and to enforce her/ his abilities so that s/he can become able to help the other human beings to elevate their conceptual and non-conceptual awareness to the higher possible level so that the society can then elevate too. Love is considered as essential as within the realms of the Christian religion, and it is actually viewed as the primal driving force in our life and in Life as a whole
😵

Originally posted by josephw
So what you're saying is you don't want to live forever.

There is a creator. Everybody knows it. Only God can create something from nothing. And only God can give you the gift of eternal life.

The Bible is not a myth or a fable. Contrary to popular belief. In truth, the Bible contains the only truly reasonable explanation for our condition. And existen ...[text shortened]... uld mean we would be accountable to Him. And that just goes against the grain.

Doesn't it?

I would love to live forever. What goes against the grain is the foundations of the Christian faith. The God in need of a Blood sacrifice so that some would get out of going to Hell seems somewhat strange to say the least. The narrow gate into Heaven seems wrong, and evil. That's the kind of stuff that goes against the grain. Having to sit in a pew with a person like yourself goes against the grain too.

Originally posted by daniel58
Who said anything about thought coverings?

Lol, you have a propensity for uncovering that which is ambiguous in a most succinct manner my friend! pure minimalism.

Originally posted by buckky
I would love to live forever. What goes against the grain is the foundations of the Christian faith. The God in need of a Blood sacrifice so that some would get out of going to Hell seems somewhat strange to say the least. The narrow gate into Heaven seems wrong, and evil. That's the kind of stuff that goes against the grain. Having to sit in a pew with a person like yourself goes against the grain too.

no wonder it seems strange to you my friend, for it is a piece of nonsense, there is no hell, no torment, God would never condemn persons, while in a state of imperfection, for making mistakes, no chance, it is entirely inconsistent with his loving nature. what god is interested in is the heart condition of a person, not some ritualistic adherence to some dogmatic tradition.

dig this,

The sacrifices to God are a broken spirit;
A heart broken and crushed, O God, you will not despise

Psalm 51:17