There never was a Moses. No historical evidence outside of the OT fairytale exists. Despite much searching the desert where the wandering of the Jews is purported to have happened, can any evidence be found by anyone. It is not a big desert.
The Moses fable is an adaption of the Greek fable of the god Dionysus. Read the story of Dionysus, the curious similarities between Moses and Dionysus life stories is uncanny. Unless of course, you realize that the Jews adapted it and claimed the story line as their own. Toss out the book of Exodus, since no actual prophet (prophets cannot lie) could have written a total fabrication such as this and then claimed it was somehow of divine . No Moses, no burning bush, no ten commandments. Just a total fabrication, a lie which Jews, Christians and Muslims have been duped by for centuries.
More rubbish from the Abrahamic religions. 😲
What is interesting about Moses, Cass, is that the earliest non-Jewish recording of him that we know is from the Greek writer Hecataeus who wrote of him in the 4th century BC and did not draw any comparison to the god Dionysus who, no doubt, he would have been familiar with [1].
Dionysus' origins are very confusing as well... He could be a synthesis of Greek and Thracian gods, or he is sometimes described as a god who came in from the East. His timeline would be different, and I am sure that the mythology surroundign whatever you are referencing is something that developed over the years and may even be in competition or conflict with other storylines.
It is quite common for there to be confusion and even conflict in story lines -- take a look at the stories concerning Hades and Pluto. Sometimes, they are the same. Sometimes, they are different. Sometimes, there is Hades, Pluto, and Plutons, and sometimes just Pluto and Plutons. Sometimes, Pluto is descended from Demeter I think it is, sometimes it is unknown. Sometimes, he is married, and soemtimes he isn't. Sometimes he is the brother of an impoortant God, and sometimes he isn't.
Sometimes Pluto is Hades, and they are both "good." Sometimes Pluto and Hades are different, and one is good and the other is bad... Sometimes they are just different names for each other... It's been a while since I've read about this, but there really isn't a set dogma or doctrine about this that makes me think whatever Dionysian storyline you have is going to be relevant.
It very well could have originate or been influenced by Near Eastern storylines.
I believe Moses was real, and that everything happened as occurred. Indeed, Israel Finklestein notes that it is pretty bold how the Moses of the Old Testament wanders to the south of Israel and invades from the East, just as how it actually had occurred. These are the sorts of details that one would not think would otherwise be recorded.
Yet, I have to say that I am still fleshing out some of my concepts about the Old Testament, and I am no expert and it is a topic that requires LOADS of information and knowledge to really tackle. I'll have to just respond and answer things as they present themselves.
Fortunately, at this point, all we have are just some vague statements -- but maybe Cassiad will elaborate.
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moses
@philokalia saidWasn't Hades just an older name for Pluto?
Sometimes Pluto is Hades, and they are both "good." Sometimes Pluto and Hades are different, and one is good and the other is bad...
Religions evolve.
Christianity included.
Most churches of 100 years ago would be unfamiliar to adherents today.
@wolfgang59 said(1) The Pluto thing is complex and I think I got it wrong, but it is complex enough to actually have confused experts in the field and produce some amount of debate, it seems.
Wasn't Hades just an older name for Pluto?
Religions evolve.
Christianity included.
Most churches of 100 years ago would be unfamiliar to adherents today.
It was all meant to just show how mythology back then was fast and loose -- and it was:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pluto_(mythology)
(2) The Orthodox & Catholic Churches would be identical to how they were 3-400 years ago...
The Orthodox Church, indeed, would be an identical service to what people have been using since the year 692 (Officially).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quinisext_Council
It is also safe to say that conservative protestant sects, particularly Calvinist, Presbyterian, and Baptist, would be recognizable...
There's also quite a few stuffy Lutheran & Anglican churches kicking around that would not have changed much...
Of course, some mainline Protestant sects and megachurches would not be recognizable, but even the megachurches might preach a conservative doctrine and message that would be identical to those preached within the greater Protestant tradition.
I think you are exaggerating -- and I do not enumerate these examples in hope to like criticize you individually so hard but only to emphasize my point here that the Christian tradition is quite large and often pretty uniform.
@Philokalia
The fact remains that there is no evidence for the existence of Moses or any wandering in the desert by thousands of Jews. Zero, nada, and zip.
He is as real as Dionysus.
And Jesus did not know this ??
Heck, in Mark, Jesus tells people not to wash their hands before eating. Wow, an omnipotent all-knowing being who doesn't know about disease spreading by germs. Is Mark wrong ? Is Jesus wrong ?
No gods here, just myth and fabrication.
@caissad4 saidIndeed, there never was a Moses, never was a David, never was a Jesus, never was a Soctrates, blah, blah, blah.
There never was a Moses. No historical evidence outside of the OT fairytale exists. Despite much searching the desert where the wandering of the Jews is purported to have happened, can any evidence be found by anyone. It is not a big desert.
The Moses fable is an adaption of the Greek fable of the god Dionysus. Read the story of Dionysus, the curious similarities between Mo ...[text shortened]... stians and Muslims have been duped by for centuries.
More rubbish from the Abrahamic religions. 😲
Yea, we get it.
FYI, I'm a figment of your imagination as well.
@caissad4 saidOk smart boy, then where did the 10 commandments come from? They had to come from somewhere?
Whodey places a finger firmly in each ear and loudly sings "La la lalalala".
Typical Christian.
Also, where did the Hebrew people come from if not Egypt, or had they always been in Israel?
@whodey saidHello?
Ok smart boy, then where did the 10 commandments come from? They had to come from somewhere?
Also, where did the Hebrew people come from if not Egypt, or had they always been in Israel?
Where is the evidence as to where the 10 commandments came from and where is the evidence where the Hebrew people came from?
Oh dear, he is singing, La, la, la, la, la.
Last I checked, human witness is evidence, and the Bible is such evidence.
What evidence do you have?
@whodey saidThe ten commandments were made up and then a story of divine communication was fabricated. Just like most of your "holy" book was.
Ok smart boy, then where did the 10 commandments come from? They had to come from somewhere?
Also, where did the Hebrew people come from if not Egypt, or had they always been in Israel?
The Hebrews were originally disaffected Canaanites .
There was no burning bush, wandering the Sinai desert, parting a sea, and definitely no scene with Charleton Heston saying "Let my people go". No Moses.
With your reputation for misinformation and outright lies on these forums, your disagreement is an affirmation .
@caissad4 saidWhere is your evidence for all this?
The ten commandments were made up and then a story of divine communication was fabricated. Just like most of your "holy" book was.
The Hebrews were originally disaffected Canaanites .
There was no burning bush, wandering the Sinai desert, parting a sea, and definitely no scene with Charleton Heston saying "Let my people go". No Moses.
With your reputation for misinformation and outright lies on these forums, your disagreement is an affirmation .
Or am I just suppose to blindly swallow your insult and assertions?
@caissad4 saidI am routinely shocked by how big the claims you make are and how little effort you put into any of your posts.
@Philokalia
The fact remains that there is no evidence for the existence of Moses or any wandering in the desert by thousands of Jews. Zero, nada, and zip.
He is as real as Dionysus.
And Jesus did not know this ??
Heck, in Mark, Jesus tells people not to wash their hands before eating. Wow, an omnipotent all-knowing being who doesn't know about disease spreading by germs. Is Mark wrong ? Is Jesus wrong ?
No gods here, just myth and fabrication.
You simply asserted that Moses never existed and there is no proof of the Hebrews wandering the desert.
And I am guessing that you will lamely restate the exact same argument again, with minimal change, even if I make an effort post against this -- which I already have.
Why are you even starting threads if all you are going to do is post something short and then just needle at anyone challenges it, without actually providing any real criticism of depth..? What's the point?