Nuns - The "other" Catholic issue

@Duchess64

Sonship's disingenuous.

There is nothing disingenuous about my post.

Obviously, universal celibacy would lead (in the absence of artificial insemination)

No one mentioned "universal celibacy". I did mention something about universal priesthood.
We are talking about selective mandatory celibacy for a class of Christian workers in
the RCC.

Paul's instruction of some who forbid marriage does not mean necessarily "universal celibacy" of all congregants.

to the end of human reproduction and eventual extinction of the human species.

You are on a non-issue because nothing in my reply or reference implied necessarily "universal celibacy."

While Jesus, of course, did not insist that every Christian be celibate, he said nothing
about discouraging Christian clergy

I don't think you are reading my posts.
Jesus didn't speak of a "clergy" class in ANY regard.

Secondly I already wrote that Jesus said some believers would make themselves celibate for the sake of the kingdom of the heavens. I referred you to Matthew 19:12 . That is indication enough that He expected some disciples of His would voluntarily decide on an unmarried life.

from regarding celibacy as an ideal, to follow
in the path of Jesus while avoiding or resisting the temptations of the flesh.

Its a moot point because nowhere did I say that no celibacy would be allowed by Christ. Matthew 19:12 shows He expected some to follow in His own example.

The issue is that to make it mandatory in a legal requirement of some was a teaching of demons. If I am disingenuous then I am disingenuous according to the apostolic teaching of First Timothy 4:1-3.

Now if you are eager to label me as saying NO celibacy is ever seen or allowed by God I would refer to Revelation 14:1-5 which recommends some who are Firstfruits in their spiritual ripeness to God and the Lamb [Christ the Redeemer]. And it says that among their other accolades they will be celibate apparently.

"These are they who have not been defiled with women, for they are virgins. These are they who follow the Lamb wherever He may go. These were purchased from among men as firstfruits to God and to the Lamb. And in their mouth no lie was found." (Rev. 14:4,5)

So plainly it appears SOME who decided voluntarily to be celibate will be especially noted by Christ in the end times. Your attempts to portray me as bigoted, biased or particularly Catholic bashing have not been successful.

Now on the subject of genuineness which you raised - Am I mistaken that I recall you as an atheist? Are you now putting a Roman Catholic Church apologist hat on? Your tag Duchess reminds me of some previous encounters.

@mchill said
Irrelevant - label or no, they are still young women being taken advantage of.

Irrelevant? But you specified that the victims were "shapely". Not me. You said it. Why?

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Celibacy can indeed be an "unbearably painful" circumstance when it's a *requirement* on foisted on others, like with Catholic clergy. Nuns don't have a choice; that's what makes it wrong.

It can be argued that Catholics aren't required to join positions where celibacy is required; but that would mean anyone who feels called to serve God in those positions would be choosing sex over obeying God. This would result in unnecessary guilt, given that the Bible doesn't even require celibacy in the first place.

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"It can be argued that Catholics aren't required to join positions where celibacy is required; but that would mean anyone who feels called to serve God in those positions would be choosing sex over obeying God. This would result in unnecessary guilt, given that the Bible doesn't even require celibacy in the first place." ---Vivify

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The nature of being a sailor requires celibacy; that's not true of any position in a Catholic church. Their own Biblical texts don't require celibacy; it's an arbitrary rule the Church decided to enforce on their clergy.

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It's this belief that directly lead to the Protestant Reformation lead by Luther. The The Church essentially made their authority higher than that of the Bible.

The inevitable result was widespread corruption in the Catholic Church, including the selling of "indulgences" (something like "get out hell free" cards) and the concept of Papal Infallibility. The later was used to quell any questioning of the Pope, allowing despots to rise, such as Alexander IV. Indulgences are no longer sold by the Church, but the idea of Papal infallibility continues to this day.

In fact, the Church even barred the reading of Biblical texts from the common people. Doing so helped ensure ignorance of the populace; the Church did not want another Reformation to arise from those who could read the Bible themselves.

I can go on, but the point is that Catholicism is seen as heretical by Protestants, for multiple reasons; not the least of which include the Catholic devotion to Mary being on the level of what Protestants consider idolatry. Catholics pray to and bow before Mary as if she were a god. Idolatry is arguably the single biggest sin in the Bible.

It's my opinion that Protestantism was born out of a more sincere devotion to the Christian faith than what Catholicism offers.

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Chastity or celibacy is fine as long as one chooses this under no compulsion from any person or institution.

The Church should the clergy decide for themselves whether they want to be celibate or not. I think enforcing celibacy is a major factor in the endemic amounts of molestation and rape of Catholic children.

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What's wrong with having such a perspective? Pretty much all topics debated and discussed on this Spirituality Forum involve people comparing their subjective.perspectives. is there something wrong, in and of itself, in having an anti-Catholic perspective about Christianity?