Obamacare vs Christianity, as blogger sees it--

Originally posted by KellyJay
I've never pushed for anyone to be forced to pray in schools, the issue now
is that the govenment is now telling people when they will and will not respect
people's beliefs in how they live their lives and do business. You don't see this
as an issue, just because you disagree with people on prayer? You cannot see
this as a seprate issue that needs to be looked at on its own merits?
Kelly

I'd rather see kids learn something useful in 10 minutes
than spend a whole hour in prayer.

Originally posted by johnnylongwoody
I'd rather see kids learn something useful in 10 minutes
than spend a whole hour in prayer.

So what? I frankly don't care what you'd have your kids do or don't do.
Kelly

Originally posted by KellyJay
So what? I frankly don't care what you'd have your kids do or don't do.
Kelly

Oooooohhh get you?


Have I said something to upset you?

Originally posted by PsychoPawn
That's exactly my point. The bible can be (and has been) used to justify some of the most heinous things in history.

Also, you can't just have this be applicable to Christianity. You would have to allow any and every religion have their own exemptions.

If I take the pacifist interpretation of a religion can I not have my tax dollars go to the military?

There are near infinite examples.

For all the railing Jesus did about hypocrisy, one would think that Christians would be the least likely to be guilty of it. However in my experience, Christians, on the whole, are amongst the most likely. Perhaps it's because they are less likely to mature out of self-centeredness which renders them incapable of seeing points of view other than their own.

Even at that, I may be wrong, but I suspect that those who espouse views similar to that of the blogger in the OP are in the extreme minority even amongst Christians.

Originally posted by KellyJay
I've never pushed for anyone to be forced to pray in schools, the issue now
is that the govenment is now telling people when they will and will not respect
people's beliefs in how they live their lives and do business. You don't see this
as an issue, just because you disagree with people on prayer? You cannot see
this as a seprate issue that needs to be looked at on its own merits?
Kelly

the issue now is that the govenment is now telling people when they will and will not respect people's beliefs in how they live their lives and do business.

This issue is not about how these people live their lives. It is about the fact that the government is putting in a regulation with respect to a business and these people think that because their faith contradicts that gives them sufficient reason to not have to follow the law.

The government regulates a number of parts of businesses. For example, these people can't pay their workers under minimum wage. If their religion dictated that they not pay their workers at all would you be okay with that?

Can you answer my question: is religious justification sufficient excuse to violate any law?

I find it ridiculous to use the simple fact that "it's against my religion" to somehow be a justification to avoid a frankly, logical law that frankly has a lot of real benefits.

You cannot see this as a seprate issue that needs to be looked at on its own merits?

You missed my point completely and quite unsurprisingly.

Originally posted by johnnylongwoody
Oooooohhh get you?


Have I said something to upset you?

No, I'm simply saying to you, you can do what you will with your own. I like
seeing my kids pray, because I believe it is very important in life. I do not
for one sec want to force another to do as I do, which is not what believers
get from non-believers where simply being exposed to something they dislike
they feel put upon.
Kelly

Originally posted by PsychoPawn
[b]the issue now is that the govenment is now telling people when they will and will not respect people's beliefs in how they live their lives and do business.

This issue is not about how these people live their lives. It is about the fact that the government is putting in a regulation with respect to a business and these people think that because ...[text shortened]... ooked at on its own merits?[/b]

You missed my point completely and quite unsurprisingly.[/b]

The government is now starting to force people to do things that goes against
their convictions by redefining what church and state means. It is moving away
from individual rights to institutional ones, which is a drastic alteration.
Kelly

Originally posted by KellyJay
The government is now starting to force people to do things that goes against their convictions by redefining what church and state means.

What do you reckon the new definition is?

And you say it's "now starting": when do you reckon it started - what year, or decade, or which administration?

Originally posted by KellyJay
The government is now starting to force people to do things that goes against
their convictions by redefining what church and state means. It is moving away
from individual rights to institutional ones, which is a drastic alteration.
Kelly

How is it redefining what church and state means!? Moving away from individual rights to institutional ones?!

Can you explain yourself?

Do you have an answer to my question?

Originally posted by PsychoPawn
[b]the issue now is that the govenment is now telling people when they will and will not respect people's beliefs in how they live their lives and do business.

This issue is not about how these people live their lives. It is about the fact that the government is putting in a regulation with respect to a business and these people think that because ...[text shortened]... ooked at on its own merits?[/b]

You missed my point completely and quite unsurprisingly.[/b]

"If their religion dictated that they not pay their workers at all would you be okay with that? "

In a free country you may work without pay if you like, not sure how you
support yourself unless of course you are living off of others taxes. I don't
care what a religion dictates as far as their workers getting paid! In this
country you can work for whoever you want to, if you don't like your pay,
or lack there of you may go else where. Where we differ is that now choices
are being taken away and you don't seem to care, because you dislike the
group that is complaining.
Kelly

Originally posted by PsychoPawn
How is it redefining what church and state means!? Moving away from individual rights to institutional ones?!

Can you explain yourself?

Do you have an answer to my question?

http://blog.christianitytoday.com/women/2013/01/hobby-lobby-first-martyr-under-obamacare.html

Forcing people to do things against their wills is forcing them to do things
against their wills.
Kelly

Originally posted by KellyJay
"If their religion dictated that they not pay their workers at all would you be okay with that? "

In a free country you may work without pay if you like, not sure how you
support yourself unless of course you are living off of others taxes. I don't
care what a religion dictates as far as their workers getting paid! In this
country you can work for who away and you don't seem to care, because you dislike the
group that is complaining.
Kelly

In a free country you may work without pay if you like, not sure how you
support yourself unless of course you are living off of others taxes. I don't
care what a religion dictates as far as their workers getting paid! In this
country you can work for who ...[text shortened]...

Do you ever answer the actual question you were asked???


Where we differ is that now choices
are being taken away and you don't seem to care, because you dislike the
group that is complaining.

Do you even want to know what I think or do you want to repeat the same falsehood again and again as if it were true?

This is NOT what I think, but yet you keep repeating the same lie. Why?

I don't dislike the group that is complaining. I dislike their positions, yes. I have very logical reasons for why I don't think they are right and you don't seem to care to even listen to them. Instead you just keep parroting the same lie.

Originally posted by KellyJay
http://blog.christianitytoday.com/women/2013/01/hobby-lobby-first-martyr-under-obamacare.html

Forcing people to do things against their wills is forcing them to do things
against their wills.
Kelly

Can you please answer the question asked and not the one you seem to have made up in your head?

I asked:
How is this specifically redefining church and state separation??

What do you mean by moving rights from individual to institutional?

Originally posted by PsychoPawn
Can you please answer the question asked and not the one you seem to have made up in your head?

I asked:
How is this specifically redefining church and state separation??

What do you mean by moving rights from individual to institutional?

The owners of the company hold views that matter to them, the gov is saying
that the company must do what the owners don't want to. Taking the rights
away from the people who own it.
Kelly

Originally posted by PsychoPawn
[b]In a free country you may work without pay if you like, not sure how you
support yourself unless of course you are living off of others taxes. I don't
care what a religion dictates as far as their workers getting paid! In this
country you can work for who ...[text shortened]...

Do you ever answer the actual question you were asked???


ou don't seem to care to even listen to them. Instead you just keep parroting the same lie.

[/b]You put a "?" behind something you asked I answered, if you have something
else you want answered be clear.
Kelly