Opposition to Truth

Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
Fourth Post Above Yours, LemonJello:

Originally posted by RJHinds (Reply to FMF)I believe most of us understand that unknowingly making an inaccurate statement is not what most of us classify as lying. Do you understand that?

[b]Comment: All of us unintentionally make inaccurate statements from time to time. Inaccurate statements are b ...[text shortened]... rd truth and darkness of their angst ridden and distraught souls are in a category of their own.[/b]

Falsehoods constitute lies

THIS is where you are going wrong.

All lies are falsehoods [excepting some arcane examples we need not discuss here]

HOWEVER

Not all falsehoods are lies.

As many here have apparently said, lying requires either intentionally telling falsehoods
or the claiming as known truth that which you do not, or cannot know to be true.

If a person makes a claim that they genuinely believe to be true eg "your keys are on your
dressing table" but which turns out to be false ... That does not mean that they were lying.

If you have a definition that indicates otherwise then your definition is wrong as it produces
results that would be considered incorrect by a majority of both lay readers and linguists.

Originally posted by divegeester
And your point is...?

Do you have a point?

I'm already wishing I hadn't bothered .

There is no "point" per se. It's an experiment to determine if an academic topic and a brief original post [without external quotations] would result in relaxed, objective conversation or devolve into unfocused pettiness and personal attack.

Originally posted by twhitehead
Just to be clear, I haven't made any personal attacks in this thread. You on the other hand falsely accused me of violating the RHP forum guidelines and I am yet to hear an apology from you. (and no, this is not an agenda that seeks to garner peer approval rating points.)
What I did seek to do was to show you how ridiculous your OP is, but it seems you ...[text shortened]... tual interest in the truth but would rather live a lie. (no thats not a personal attack either).

Is there such a thing as "Truth"? If so, is there "Opposition to Truth"? If so, what is the antonym for "Truth"?

Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
Is there such a thing as "Truth"? If so, is there "Opposition to Truth"? If so, what is the antonym for "Truth"?

If I say it will rain in London on the 1st Jan 2015 is that the Truth.
If not what is it.
Does it become something else after the 1st Jan 2015?

Originally posted by wolfgang59
If I say it will rain in London on the 1st Jan 2015 is that the Truth.
If not what is it.
Does it become something else after the 1st Jan 2015?

Sounds like a Commentator on the Weather Channel or Writer for "The Farmers' Almanac" making a long range forecast.

Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
Fourth Post Above Yours, LemonJello:

Originally posted by RJHinds (Reply to FMF)I believe most of us understand that unknowingly making an inaccurate statement is not what most of us classify as lying. Do you understand that?

[b]Comment: All of us unintentionally make inaccurate statements from time to time. Inaccurate statements are b ...[text shortened]... rd truth and darkness of their angst ridden and distraught souls are in a category of their own.[/b]

Earth to Grampy Bobby: that is what I was already addressing....

Originally posted by LemonJello
Earth to Grampy Bobby: that is what I was already addressing....

Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
Fourth Post Above Yours, LemonJello:

Originally posted by RJHinds (Reply to FMF)I believe most of us understand that unknowingly making an inaccurate statement is not what most of us classify as lying. Do you understand that?

Comment: All of us unintentionally make inaccurate statements from time to time. Inaccurate statements are by definition false. Falsehoods constitute lies. Therefore, in an academic/technical sense: "Whoever chooses to believe and promulgate a lie is a liar." would apply. Those who deviously manufacture, fabricate and promulgate sinister half truths and outright lies from the negativity toward truth and darkness of their angst ridden and distraught souls are in a category of their own.

Originally posted by LemonJello
Earth to Grampy Bobby: that is what I was already addressing....

Then it would appear that we're in agreement.

Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
Fourth Post Above Yours, LemonJello:

Originally posted by RJHinds (Reply to FMF)I believe most of us understand that unknowingly making an inaccurate statement is not what most of us classify as lying. Do you understand that?

[b]Comment: All of us unintentionally make inaccurate statements from ...[text shortened]... obby: that is what I was already addressing....

Then it would appear that we're in agreement.[/b]

It would? 🙄

Originally posted by LemonJello
It would? 🙄

Any memorable quotations on the topic of truth? I enjoyed the one from George Bernard Shaw in reply to josephw.

Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
Those who deviously manufacture, fabricate and promulgate sinister half truths and outright lies from the negativity toward truth and darkness of their angst ridden and distraught souls are in a category of their own.

It's funny how you, of all people, have typed these rather angst ridden and distraught words about being in a category of his own. 🙂

Originally posted by FMF
It's funny how you, of all people, have typed these rather angst ridden and distraught words about being in a category of his own. 🙂

Originally posted by FMF
Why not give us a few examples of the kind of capital T "Truths" that you really want to put to the test on this thread?

First Post: Kneejerk assumption which ascribes an underlying motive to "... an experiment to determine if an academic topic and a brief original post [without external quotations] would result in relaxed, objective conversation or devolve into unfocused pettiness and personal attack." And now 85 Posts later the transference of animosity continues unabated. Sad.

Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
Any memorable quotations on the topic of truth? I enjoyed the one from George Bernard Shaw in reply to josephw.

Well, I see that you have once again basically ignored my comments, per your usual MO.

I guess as a creature of ersatz inquiry and understanding, you thrive more on platitudes and the like. Well, then, here you go: "Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored." --Huxley.

Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
Originally posted by FMF
Why not give us a few examples of the kind of capital T "Truths" that you really want to put to the test on this thread?

First Post: Kneejerk assumption which ascribes an underlying motive to "... an experiment to determine if an academic topic and a brief original post [without external quotations] would result in ...[text shortened]... personal attack." And now 85 Posts later the transference of animosity continues unabated. Sad.

There is no animosity Grampy Bobby. You have repeatedly dodged an example ~ that fits this topic and that is from one of your own recent posts ~ of what was at first [perhaps] an example of "unknowingly making an inaccurate statement", but then [1] you tried to blank out the fact its inaccuracy had been pointed out to you, and then [2] posted it again, knowing that it was "false information".

The on-topic question which you have evaded several times so far is "Does it make you a "liar" Grampy Bobby ~ according to the terms set out in your own OP?" Why are you not willing to "experiment" on the piece of "false information" that you yourself promulgated? It's as if you make every effort NOT to discuss the topics you raise properly. 🙂

Originally posted by LemonJello
Well, I see that you have once again basically ignored my comments, per your usual MO.

I guess as a creature of ersatz inquiry and understanding, you thrive more on platitudes and the like. Well, then, here you go: "Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored." --Huxley.

Originally posted by LemonJello (Page 5)
The very obvious thing you fail to appreciate is that in normal parlance, lying implies the presence of the intention to deceive. Therefore, in circumstances wherein one is said to have lied, or wherein one is called a liar, it normally carries impugnment of one's character or motivations, at least to the extent of within those circumstances. But such is not applicable in circumstances wherein one unintentionally makes an inaccurate statement. This is the obvious distinction that others in this thread have been trying to get you to recognize. Even RJHinds seems to understand this basic point....

Any particular points in your "comments" you believe I've "ignored"? Great counterpoint quotation format: 'Subjective opinions, half truths, falsehoods, purposeful distortions, overt lies do not cease to exist because they are ignored.' ~anon

Note: "Ersatz" Graphic word to describe today's processed food. I also like Interrobang!? coined a few decades ago.

Originally posted by FMF
There is no animosity Grampy Bobby. You have repeatedly dodged an example ~ that fits this topic and that is from one of your own recent posts ~ of what was at first [perhaps] an example of "unknowingly making an inaccurate statement", but then [1] you tried to blank out the fact its inaccuracy had been pointed out to you, and then [2] posted it again, knowing t ...[text shortened]... f promulgated? It's as if you make every effort NOT to discuss the topics you raise properly. 🙂

If you wish to have conversation, please ratchet your instinctive focus away from personalities to Truth and its Opposition.